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Willow Tits? (1 Viewer)

birdman

birdman

Орнитол&
Hi experts!

Is it at all possible to make any positive ids from the rather dodgy photos below?

I reckon the right hand birds of the two (in the same photo) is Willow Tit (pale wing panel?)... is the left bird also?

And the others?

Profuse apologies for poor photos, and for not actually knowing if any of these pix are of the same bird.

Sorry, no call to help me out, they were quiet as mice.

And for Michael Frankis and digi-birder, and anyone else who knows the area, these were at Potteric Carr.

Any help, including shooting down in flames if appropriate, would be appreciated.

Muchas gracias...

:t:
 

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The bibs look quite large to me (in the two tofether)which would suggest Marsh tit, which can also appear to have a pale panel on the wing but it is not as obvious as in Willow. Did you hear a call?

Also aren't willow tit really rare in Northern Britain, or am I making that up?
 
From these photos! I 'ain't a clue. But it's unlikely that two sub-species are together especially Wt's & Mt's.

I'd say the same species :-0

Potteric Carr ~ Willow Tit ;-) without a doubt, if not report the sightings!

CB
 
For me photo 4 is a Willow Tit on the 'Bull necked' appearence. Though i have seen few Willow Tit myself i am used to seeing Marsh Tits.
 
Have I completely mixed up my ID on Willow/Marsh tit?

This is why I always carry a book.

I'll get me coat :flyaway:
 
Jane Turner said:
The single birds shout Willow, the pair..probably Willow, but I'd always like to hear them call.
Click to expand...
The pair! I've never seen Wt's & Mt's together in over 30 years!

Has anyoneB :)

CB
 
At Potteric, and I think it's appropriately called the Willow Hide, they're usually Willow Tit, I've been reliably informed.
 
Thanks to all for replies, and it seems like the general opinion, where one can be formed is Willow Tit.

I know I have asked digi-birder this before, and as she states, the hide is known as the Willow Hide… but whether that is significant, I do not know.

I am interested in the comment that two (the two?) spp do not generally appear in the same place, CravenBirds.

I'm not quite sure how literally to take that.

Do you mean that their preferred habitats are so different, that it is unlikely that both spp would occur in the same locality, or that they shun each other, such that it is unlikely that the two birds in the same picture are of opposing spp? (Or something in between.)

Just to be clear for those who don’t know, Potteric Carr… as its name suggest, does have an extensive area of wetland… pools, scrapes, reedbeds and the like, but also there are woodlands. The Willow Hide observation point, does look out onto a feeding station.

(Don’t know whether this makes any difference to anyone!)

Just to muddy the waters though, and I appreciate that in cases such as this, it is wrong to focus too much on a single feature, but the wing panel bird that I called as Willow, and in fact the other bird in the same photo, seem to have notched tails.

I didn't notice that yesterday – maybe my work monitor has higher res.

Is that not a Marsh Tit feature?

The real lessons that I have learned, I think, are that I am going to have to improve on a number of skills.

Certainly, I'm going to have to learn how to take better photos (you should've seen some of the others… they were awful!).

Also, I am going to have to get to grips with Marsh and Willow id features.

And finally, I am going to have to learn some bird calls – about which more in another thread!!!

Once again, thanks for all the responses… do feel free to add more if you think it necessary.

:t:

 
As others have said, Marsh and Willow quite often occur in the same places but I hardly remember ever seeing them together. The thing with Willow Tits is that they tend not to associate with other birds so you normally just see them in ones and twos with no other species around. They do have different habitat preferences (Marsh more mature and drier woodland and Willow damper and more scrubby stuff with rotten timber) but there's some overlap and within the same woodland you can find both habitats side by side.
 
CravenBirds said:
The pair! I've never seen Wt's & Mt's together in over 30 years!

Has anyoneB :)

CB
Click to expand...

Last March at Woodwalton Fen. Heard a Willow Tit sing and soon after saw it. It looked fine but was with a bird that looked like a Marsh. It seemed to take ages but they finally both called. It was just coincidence they appeared close together at first. Willow are now extremely hard to find here but Marsh are abundant. Willow were more common than Marsh during the 1980s.

Brian
 
I'd agree with Brian on the abundance of each in the 1980s. It's now by all accounts very hard to find Willow Tit in Northamptonshire but (especially in winter) they used to crop up all over the place, even around the town. The local bird recorder never even seemed interested in receiving records of them and they just went into the Bird Report as a 'Common Resident'. Marsh Tits seem to have stayed about the same in the meantime, though in some places have perhaps become commoner.
 
I may be wrong but the fourth pic shows the head mask edge line through the eye which says Willow and the Marsh's goes under the eye.
 
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