pied or eastern black-eared ? (1 Viewer)

hi again,

also from our september journey, taken at enisala castle, near lake razelm, close to the black sea coast on september 3rd 2006 by e. vinckx. we were not sure if it's not a melanoleuca which would be quite rare (but also a rare breeder) or "just" a pleschanka? maybe you can help us solve this.
cheers,

Lou, a pretty useless comment I'm afraid :

The bird seems to be rather orangey above and on crown, doesn't it ? This fits more melanoleuca than pleschanka.

the buffy-ochre-beige-browinish crown, nape, mantle is more in line with melanoleuca I would've thought

Hi Lou, looks like a first-winter male Pied to me. The cold earthy brown-grey tone of the mantle with pale scaling (warmer brown on melanoleuca), the extensive mask and throat patch and the bold peachy wash on the underparts all say Pied to me.

Rgds

Greg

The bird is obviously an adult, blackish primaries, and the throat patch doesn´t seem to conect with the wing, lesser coverts looks black, and doesn´t seem to reach as long down on to upper breast as on Pied (don´t know if that is a constant character on Pied?). Primary projection seems shorther than on Pied (not easy judged, and perhaps not always a fact). The black above the base of the bill fits eastern Black-eared, but does Pied have that?

Check further down here:

http://www.virtual-bird.com/identity/archives/2004_10_01_archive.html

http://www.alsirhan.com/Birds/Pied_Wheatear.htm

JanJ

Hmm. Jan, I'm still convinced it's a first-winter and a pristine one at that. First-winter Pieds sure have black primaries, there are broad pale edges on the remiges and even intact pale tips to the tail feathers. I can't see an adult of either species looking like this in September.

Rgds

Greg

Hi Greg.

Was just looking at the all black looking primary and lesser coverts. Would be white tipped/edged on 1st winter in both species.

JanJ

JANJ said:

Hi Greg.

Was just looking at the all black looking primary and lesser coverts. Would be white tipped/edged on 1st winter in both species.

JanJ

Click to expand...

On reflection, I think you're right Jan. I'm a bit surprised that an adult would be in full winter plumage on the breeding grounds in September, but there you go. The rather solidly dark throat is another adult feature. I still think it's still a Pied, though. Here's a link to a similar bird from Ethiopia in October
http://bird.incoming.jp/30/jpgl/5621 051015-1 Pied Wheatear.jpg

Rgds

Greg

thanks for the input Th_SQ, LB, Greg and Jan!

greg, as for "winter plum" you surely know it's just the very fresh plumage just after moult which is the case in this ad male i guess. they moult in july/august and usually have completed moult in september. it seems that the extent of black on throat is larger in pied visible also in fresh plumage but i remember that there is variation in this character (seen in spring males).
i have to do more research on this, especially on the orangey tones - to which extent is this feature shown by pleschankas too? BWP doesn't help much and i don't have panov's excellent book about wheatears (from 2005).
also it isn't excluded that this is aóne of the hybrids found in romania with connected black (throat to wings) but complete whitish back (no dark mantle), resembling finsch's w., one of them being discussed at BF two years ago.
what does svensson's passerine book say (i still havn't got a copy, waiting for the new edition...)?
so far i'm inclined to an ad male melanoleuca.