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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Once you have Alpha you can never Backa? (2 Viewers)

Mainly ergonomics, but I do give them a slight edge optically also. Just not $1000 worth for the reasons I already posted.

You euro lovers just need to get a grip. As with everything else on the planet, alpha Chinese optics are coming and coming fast. The popularity and existence of high dollar european and Japanese binos are going to be threatened. Hyundai already builds as good or better automobile than Mercedes and Toyota. Get used to it.

I agree about Hyundai being as a good as a Toyota maybe not a Mercedes but their Korean. Do really think the Chinese will challenge the Europeans and the Japanese? I mean these Zen Ray binoculars have pretty good optics but they are not even close in build quality to the Europeans. Time will tell I guess.
 
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Not sure if there's a hint of "emporers cloths" going on in this thread but at a recent star party my Hawke Frontier ED's were placed before a pair of Leica's by a few guys who new little about binos but appreciated good astro scopes & eyepieces. Our Leica owner stood alone but repeated an oft ask question.. how can those be better than my £800 Leica's?

Easy they have ED glass and your Leica doesn't. Compare them to the Leica Ultravid HD and it would be a different story.
 
As an active birder I would say that every time I raise my binoculars to my eyes and get a better view of something then that is worth something to me. Maybe only a few cents (talking US money), but certainly more than that if it's a really good view of an attractive or interesting bird, or if I can see an interesting feature of the bird more clearly. As that is every time I raise my binoculars to my eyes, it doesn't take me long to get back my $1000, and after that I am into profit ;)

That is exactly my point. It is worth it to buy the best binoculars you can afford. It is so cool to see that bird a little bit better or make out a detail that you never saw before your binoculars were not as good. $2K is not a huge investment for something that pays you back everytime you use it.
 
I lost both of my objective covers and my eyepiece covers of my Gr HD"s. Leupold sent me all of it free, and also included some winged eyecups for me to try out....free. I also sent in a Leupold rifle scope for repair at the same time I sent in my Swaro riflescope to be cleaned, examined and fix the erector. Leupold's turn around time was 2 1/2 weeks, Swaro 5 weeks. The truth hurts doesn't it denco?

Leupold sounds like they have good customer service also. I have no experience with their customer service although I have tried several of their binoculars including the GR HD's and they were in my opinion way to heavy and bulky for birding. I think the 8x42's were something like 33 oz! That's as heavy as the new 50mm Swarovisions! Also, the eyecups never worked that good for me. They were uncomfortable being too big for my eyesockets. I remember the optics were pretty good though although the field wasn't as flat as a top alpha nor did I feel the resolution on axis or off-axis was as good. Sometimes it those little things that make or break a good binocular. But if they work for you that is good.
 
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The Chinese will not only challenge the euros and high end Japnese, they will own it like they do everything else. They are in the infant stages, but watch out. Read Consumer Reports...Mercedes makes very unreliable cars nowadays.

I'd bet if there were a way to cover up the brand names, barrels, etc on binoculars, and do a blind test so to speak, many would arrive at a completely different viewpoint and opinion. Brand bias is nothing new. Do that very thing with a $1000 Pentax ED, stack it against a Zeiss FL, and you'll notice little, if any difference at all. You'll really like this one.....a hunter brought his wife to camp and she had a Carson XD. There was virtually no difference in the view between it and my SLCneu I had at the time.

Make no mistake, I could care less what people buy. Just don't insult everyone's intelligence by trying to justify the price of a $2400 SV when others work just as well.
 
The Leica's were ED and the story remains the same. As I say, emporers cloths.

Wow. That's pretty cheap for Leica Ultravid HD's only 800 pounds. Where did you pick those up at? You would be the first person I heard off that thought the Hawks were better than the top Leica HD's. Hmmm. I guess everybodies eyes are different. Astronomy would not show some charactersitics of the optics that birding would also. Contrast, brightness, etc.
 
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The Chinese will not only challenge the euros and high end Japnese, they will own it like they do everything else. They are in the infant stages, but watch out. Read Consumer Reports...Mercedes makes very unreliable cars nowadays.

I'd bet if there were a way to cover up the brand names, barrels, etc on binoculars, and do a blind test so to speak, many would arrive at a completely different viewpoint and opinion. Brand bias is nothing new. Do that very thing with a $1000 Pentax ED, stack it against a Zeiss FL, and you'll notice little, if any difference at all. You'll really like this one.....a hunter brought his wife to camp and she had a Carson XD. There was virtually no difference in the view between it and my SLCneu I had at the time.

Make no mistake, I could care less what people buy. Just don't insult everyone's intelligence by trying to justify the price of a $2400 SV when others work just as well.

There is still ALOT of difference in build quality between the Chinese ED's and the European Alphas. All you have to do is look at them and feel them. Same way with the Hyundai and the Mercedes. That Hyundai door just doesn't shut quite as solid! HaHa!
 
I never meant to get into a pissin' match, just state another man's opinion. It's never good to argue with a fool, as they will drag you down and beat you with experience......denco you win.
 
Wow. That's pretty cheap for Leica Ultravid HD's only 800 pounds. Where did you pick those up at? You would be the first person I heard off that thought the Hawks were better than the top Leica HD's. Hmmm. I guess everybodies eyes are different. Astronomy would not show some charactersitics of the optics that birding would also. Contrast, brightness, etc.

Denis, you may have missed one or two points in my post. The Leica's were not mine, another stargazer who felt that buying used leica's he was automatically entitled to a better result against a pair of chinese bino's. I thought they were more closely matched than the opinion of others. Viewing was strictly daytime, stargazing and cloudy nights go together this side of the water only too regularly. As yo say, everybodies eyes are different.
 
Yes there was but I hadn't heard of it until Andy Bright told me when I changed my username to this.

Now I remember! It was on "Trick of the Tail", and the Squonk was a creature that dissolved into a bag of tears in the hunter's bag (for some unexplained reason). Wow, that brought me back 35-odd years!
Meanwhile, I think Dennis is being treated unfairly. His innocent enthusiasm for binoculars is matched only by his eagerness to share with all of us his latest discoveries. I don't think he's trying to force opinions on anyone, just sharing his own. I'm afraid this thread is descending into name-calling, unbecoming of the League of Ladies and Gentlemen that constitutes BF;).
(Meanwhile, I was out in Kilcoole this morning with my daughter. We got great views of a cuckoo, and I was glad I'd brought my SV's. My daughter's Vortex Vanquish were pretty damned good too, though, and they only cost 70 euro).
 
Mainly ergonomics, but I do give them a slight edge optically also. Just not $1000 worth for the reasons I already posted.

You euro lovers just need to get a grip. As with everything else on the planet, alpha Chinese optics are coming and coming fast. The popularity and existence of high dollar european and Japanese binos are going to be threatened. Hyundai already builds as good or better automobile than Mercedes and Toyota. Get used to it.
I thought I'd prefer the SLC/HD but when I compared it side-by-side with the SV it wasn't even close. To my eyes, the SV was hands down the better overall view. The differences would probably be very subtle or non-existent to most users but, after birding for many years, I saw it. I was accompanied by another birder who immediately saw the same difference. I liked the SLC/HD, but not enough to own one. I eventually purchased an 8.5X42 SV and it's the finest roof prism I've seen.

One note. When viewing long distance I find that average binoculars generally keep pace with the most expensive brands. Birders, observing in the 10-200 foot range, often search for intricate details, subtle color differences, and behaviors that are simply more evident in one optic than another. This is where resolution, CA, and edge sharpness all conspire to enhance or degrade the observer's experience.

As Dennis said, if you don't see or value the differences, count your blessings, save some cash and pick one of the Chinese brands.
 
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The SV 8.5x42 are the best binocular I've ever looked through, Do I own a pai,r no. Reason too expensive. I currently own a pair of Minox hg's which are an excellent bin which imo is just a notch below the swaro's. I had a pair of nikon e11's but because they were not waterproof I sold them. Whats my perfect bin, Its not made yet. So will I sell my minox and get a pair of nikon monarch's the answer is no as that would be downgrading and what would be the point in that.
I enjoy my hobby and I will use the best equipment I can afford in the pursuit of said hobby. At the moment its a pair of minox hg's and these are my Alpha's. So whatever bins you use just be glad you are alive and able too see through the pieces of glass at natures wonders.:t: Ger.
 
Denis, you may have missed one or two points in my post. The Leica's were not mine, another stargazer who felt that buying used leica's he was automatically entitled to a better result against a pair of chinese bino's. I thought they were more closely matched than the opinion of others. Viewing was strictly daytime, stargazing and cloudy nights go together this side of the water only too regularly. As yo say, everybodies eyes are different.

I know the Chinese ED's are very good. I had a pair of Zen Ray's 8x43 ED's and liked the optics. The QA was a little inconsistent on them though and mine had a hard focus which just caused me to return them. I would take the Leica's build quality anytime over the Chinese ED's though and I think the Leica's will last longer with superior durability. I definitely like the looks of the Leicas better also if that matters. For $400.00 if you need waterproof porro's the Chinese ED's are the way to go for the best optics. If you don't need waterproof get the Nikon SE's or EII's.
 
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I thought I'd prefer the SLC/HD but when I compared it side-by-side with the SV it wasn't even close. To my eyes, the SV was hands down the better overall view. The differences would probably be very subtle or non-existent to most users but, after birding for many years, I saw it. I was accompanied by another birder who immediately saw the same difference. I liked the SLC/HD, but not enough to own one. I eventually purchased an 8.5X42 SV and it's the finest roof prism I've seen.

One note. When viewing long distance I find that average binoculars generally keep pace with the most expensive brands. Birders, observing in the 10-200 foot range, often search for intricate details, subtle color differences, and behaviors that are simply more evident in one optic than another. This is where resolution, CA, and edge sharpness all conspire to enhance or degrade the observer's experience.

As Dennis said, if you don't see or value the differences, count your blessings, save some cash and pick one of the Chinese brands.

I compared the SLC/HD's to the SV's also and although the SLC/HD are good they to me looked like an old 8.5x42 except with out any CA to speak of. I really liked the sharp edges on the SV because I can look around the whole FOV without moving the binoculars to get the clear on axis view like you have to with other binoculars. Makes it faster to view more birds in one field. Rolling ball just doesn't bother me. I just liked the big, flat, sharp to the edge FOV of the SV. Also the SV's have alot of the 3D effect that porro's have. I don't know how they do it but it is there. Pretty neat. I saw some Bald Eagles today and had three in the FOV and they were all sharp. What a view!
 
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I've been out birding for the past week and missed this thread (just three lifers but great fun anyway). What was I carrying? 8.5 SV's. Nothin' better, hands down. Buy a pair and quit wrangling. They do it.

If you want something smaller, lighter, cheaper that's fine--I've got those too. But at least I'm willing to admit there's nothing better than the SV's out there. The Chinese have got a ways to go and life's too short to wait for them to catch up.

I won't take the SV's backpacking but beyond that it's over. These puppies rock.

Mark
 
There is still ALOT of difference in build quality between the Chinese ED's and the European Alphas. All you have to do is look at them and feel them. Same way with the Hyundai and the Mercedes. That Hyundai door just doesn't shut quite as solid! HaHa!

I haven't looked thru a Swarovision, but I bet they are great. Most "alpha's" are out of my price range (new ones anyway).

I can comment on Hyundai - they have some of the best initial build quality of any car, bar none - and that includes Mercedes, BMW, etc. I attend the auto show every year and that company continues to impress me. Their Genesis and Equus models are unbelievably good. To boot, they will most likely have better reliability than any of the german "alphas," which tend to have great build quality, but poor reliability. And you get the Hyundai at a discounted price.

There is a definitely a difference in binocular build quality now, but that gap can be closed quickly, which I suspect it will (much like Hyundai has closed the quality gap in the last 10 years).

Todd
 
I've been out birding for the past week and missed this thread (just three lifers but great fun anyway). What was I carrying? 8.5 SV's. Nothin' better, hands down. Buy a pair and quit wrangling. They do it.

If you want something smaller, lighter, cheaper that's fine--I've got those too. But at least I'm willing to admit there's nothing better than the SV's out there. The Chinese have got a ways to go and life's too short to wait for them to catch up.

I won't take the SV's backpacking but beyond that it's over. These puppies rock.

Mark

I had my SV's at this Wild Animal Sanctuary this weekend. Man do those Tigers, Lions, Bears, Wolves, Mountain Lions, Leopards and Coati Mundi look good through the SV. Kammerdiner where do you set your eyecups on your SV?

http://www.wildanimalsanctuary.org/
 
. Kammerdiner where do you set your eyecups on your SV?

http://www.wildanimalsanctuary.org/

I wear glasses so the cups are all the way in. My previous glasses must have fit a bit closer because I turned the cups out 2mm or so. They held that intermediate position quite well.

What the SV's do better than anything I've ever used is disappear. The view is just there, easy and sharp and forgiving. I'm looking at birds after all, so the less I notice the bins the better.

And I don't think SV owners are being "defensive." When you finally find a binocular that does what this does you just relax and go birding. If anything, the more I use them the less interested I am in defending them. I suspect that's what happens to most users. Let the folks who don't have them argue about rolling ball and price. I'm going birding.

Mark
 
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