Gull ID Stockholm (1 Viewer)

buzzard12

Well-known member

• Feb 28, 2011

• #1

A rather interesting 2nd calender Gull from a couple of hours ago, surely a Caspian Gull. Remarkably long billed, slim and structurally struck me as a Caspian. Dark tertials, grey mantle and scapulars with dark shafts and anchor marks add to suite of features supporting Caspian? A very rare bird in late winter in Stockholm, not sure if there are any previous records in Feb/March. Rather high chested posture on the deck. Tail pattern and upperwing pattern, including innner primaries on view in shot #3. Opinions on this bird welcome..

 

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Last edited: Feb 28, 2011

JANJ

Well-known member

• Feb 28, 2011

• #2

Hi Alan.

The fresh coverts, the inner primary pattern and some retained lower scapulars combined with + somehow structure makes it look like a Herring, perhaps with some Caspian genes but more likely a pure Herring.

JanJ

 

Lappkrabben

Well-known member

• Feb 28, 2011

• #3

IMO shape is wrong for caspian. The details you mention are possible in a herring gull at this time of the year. To take it short; Herring gull.

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=15349

 

buzzard12

Well-known member

• Feb 28, 2011

• #4

Thanks guys, a really confusing bird. A remarkable bill for a Herring Gull, had wondered about this bird, the greater coverts seemed wrong to my eyes and would of expected a whiter head...

 

Cristian Mihai

Cristian Mihai

• Feb 28, 2011

• #5

It's a Herring Gull with an abnormal bill.

 

lou salomon

the birdonist

• Feb 28, 2011

• #6

hi alan,

pure herring gull for me also. scapular pattern, broad white fringes in greater coverts, tail band also wrong for caspian but matches the slim ones i saw in sweden (gotland), nor are the marks on rectrices and uppertail coverts. fresh plumage, as mentioned.
bill is longer than usual, such birds can trick you...

cheers,

 

p wolf

Sleep is the Enemy

• Mar 1, 2011

• #7

I agree that it's not a pure Caspian but don't you all think that you would have given this bird a second look? If not, check the tertials and try to rememeber if you ever did see a 100% pure Herring with that pattern on it's tertials.

groeten, pim wolf

 

lou salomon

the birdonist

• Mar 1, 2011

• #8

sure i would, pim. it is slim line like a female caspian but plumage is all off - except for the tertials which actually are sort of 'michahellis-type' (with white reaching GC though), but i have seen pics of eastern baltic HG (finland) with such tertials. bill is slim (also in height but i guess this is due to general impression of the bird being underfed. i don't say i exclude any caspian gene in it - this would be really arrogant considering the large amount of hybridization with backcrosses and so on, there's just nothing really obvious caspian-like in it (unlike in e.g. the structurally totally wrong bird jörgen bernsmo posted here: http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=507).

cheers

 

JANJ

Well-known member

• Mar 1, 2011

• #9

Here´s one from Finland:

http://www.tarsiger.com/images/pirpa/j2.jpg

JanJ

 

lou salomon

the birdonist

• Mar 1, 2011

• #10

exactly - these types i meant, thanks jan for the link!

 

p wolf

Sleep is the Enemy

• Mar 1, 2011

• #11

Hi guys, well I fully deserved that clip round the ear, serves me right for singeling out this one character of the bird in my earlier message. Still, when I look at all those small anomalies combined (bill, structure, tail) it just does not add up to a pure Herring Gull. I agree that the link that Jan provided does show a Herring Gull with tertials similar to the ones on this bird. I am also sure that we can all find pics of a clear Herring Gull with a tailband somewhat similar but it's the combination of characters that counts isn't it? I truly do not like to be in the "hybrid-junta" but every so often along comes a bird that gives out so many signals that you cannot help but wonder what their parents were (and yes, we are still talking about gulls...).

cheers, pim

 

Last edited: Mar 1, 2011

JANJ

Well-known member

• Mar 2, 2011

• #12

Hello Pim.

My impression when first seeing this gull was in fact somewhere around Caspian Gull.
Looking closer I saw Herring as well, which led me to consider a possible hybrid between the two. That´s why I put it in the identification section on ORG forum. Looking even closer, I thought it belonged in the Herring section, which also perhaps would generate more reactions from others
The michahellis like tail band is can be seen in a few Herrings as well:

http://www.helsinki.fi/~rauste/juvmic/argtail/

JanJ