Redpoll ID Thread, Winter 06/07 (1 Viewer)

buzzard12 · Oct 31, 2006

With the winter approaching have decided to target Redpolls as one of my target species for the winter here in Stockholm. Thought I would start a thread and run it over the winter with a view to gleaning as much information as possible on the finer points of Redpoll identification.

Common Redpoll(Carduelis Flammea) will be the common species here in Stockholm. Arctic Redpoll(Carduelis Hornemanni) will be the main prize, should I be lucky enough to come across and identify one. Had a couple of probable 1st winter Arctics last winter which I did not quite nail to my satisfaction, frustratingly. Disscussion on Lesser Redpoll(ssp. Cabaret) also very welcome. Not sure of the status of these birds in Stockholm as yet....

Am thinking a thread would be quite instructive to anyone who wishes to contribute to or simply follow it. Hope to get plenty of images this year in due course, some of which may be the subject of raging debate!!

Macswede · Oct 31, 2006

All the Redpolls I've seen in Stockholm in previous years have been flammea. I'll certainly follow your thread and post any interesting shots/descriptions I get this winter for ID. Would be nice to see an Arctic or two!
Graham

buzzard12 · Oct 31, 2006

Macswede said:
All the Redpolls I've seen in Stockholm in previous years have been flammea. I'll certainly follow your thread and post any interesting shots/descriptions I get this winter for ID. Would be nice to see an Arctic or two!
Graham

Cheers Graham, should be interesting...

Macswede · Dec 4, 2006

Saw a mixed flock of Siskins and Redpolls at Ågesta yeterday, my first Redpolls of the winter. They all looked like flammea to me but the pics are so bad that I'm not sure they can tell us anything much. I've included 1 Siskin.
Graham

Macswede · Dec 25, 2006

On the way down to the local shop to do some last minute Christmas shopping yesterday, I noticed a single Redpoll feeding in a tree. I dashed back to the flat to fetch my camera and took a series of pretty awful pictures. The weather was good but the bird was at the top of a very tall tree and most of the time hidden behind twigs.
I didn't think it looked like flammea. The bird gave a yellow/brown impression rather than the grey and pink of flammea so Ithought maybe cabaret. I'm not sure the images are good enough to make an ID possible but maybe someone would like to try.
Graham

JimMorris · Dec 25, 2006

Redpole

buzzard12 said:
With the winter approaching have decided to target Redpolls as one of my target species for the winter here in Stockholm.

Here is one I took in Durham England last week if thats any help'

J Jones · Dec 25, 2006

Macswede said:
On the way down to the local shop to do some last minute Christmas shopping yesterday, I noticed a single Redpoll feeding in a tree. I dashed back to the flat to fetch my camera and took a series of pretty awful pictures. The weather was good but the bird was at the top of a very tall tree and most of the time hidden behind twigs.
I didn't think it looked like flammea. The bird gave a yellow/brown impression rather than the grey and pink of flammea so Ithought maybe cabaret. I'm not sure the images are good enough to make an ID possible but maybe someone would like to try.
Graham

I'm happy with this being flammea. From the pics, I would certainly say this is not cabaret.

Check out the attatched flammea pic, taken in Lincolnshire, England this January. It is quite a yellow-brown individual. Remember, pink would only be shown on male birds, and the bird in your latest pics is obviously not a male as it lacks any pink tones. Judging by the quite buff appearance, presumably it is a 1st-winter bird(?)

Julian Bell · Dec 25, 2006

Here's one I've all but given up on

http://www.naturalbornbirder.com/gallery/redpoll.php

Although in my opinion it is probably not an Arctic.....

Macswede · Dec 26, 2006

wrexile1 said:
I'm happy with this being flammea. From the pics, I would certainly say this is not cabaret.

Check out the attatched flammea pic, taken in Lincolnshire, England this January. It is quite a yellow-brown individual. Remember, pink would only be shown on male birds, and the bird in your latest pics is obviously not a male as it lacks any pink tones. Judging by the quite buff appearance, presumably it is a 1st-winter bird(?)

I was fairly certain that it was a female and thought that if it was a flammea it would probably a first winter bird.
Flammea is certainly more likely here than cabaret though it does look different to the flammea I usually see .
Graham

Macswede · Dec 27, 2006

Got slightly better pics today. At this rate I may produce something halfway decent by the end of the winter.
The first one is probably another first winter female. Not sure if it's cabaret or just another flammea.
Graham

buzzard12 · Jan 10, 2007

Male Mealys...

Start with the easy ones! Male Mealy, got some good shots finally at Landsort yesterday, birds coming to a feeding station at the observatory there.
Lovely pink tones on the chest...

First picture of an adult male.

Second of a second winter male? Pink on breast very restricted...

Third picture probably adult male. So much variation in these birds, its quite amazing really.

buzzard12 · Jan 10, 2007

1st Winter Mealy's..

1st Winter Mealy's here, some decent snaps for reference over the winter...

All these birds displayed streaked rumps and undertail coverts to some degree. Flanks rather dirty toned, well streaked. Some variable warm buff tones on breast sides and flanks, though this was limited in general. Big, stocky Redpolls with bull necked appearance. Bill sturdy, though often appeared to have straight culmen in the field, and indeed even in the photos, so I find this feature a little dubious perhaps in relation to separation from Arctic Redpoll....

buzzard12 · Jan 10, 2007

Lesser Redpoll, 1st winter; Landsort; 8th January 2007

One of at least 9 birds present. Smaller and more active on the deck, with very quick, light hops along the ground giving a more skitish, active jizz on the deck.
Extensive warm tones around the face, neck and upper breast immediatly noticable, as was more overall brownish appearance.
Not the difference in bib size and loral area, a very different bird...

Second picture of a first winter Mealy for comparison..

buzzard12 · Jan 10, 2007

wrexile1 said:
I'm happy with this being flammea. From the pics, I would certainly say this is not cabaret.

Check out the attatched flammea pic, taken in Lincolnshire, England this January. It is quite a yellow-brown individual. Remember, pink would only be shown on male birds, and the bird in your latest pics is obviously not a male as it lacks any pink tones. Judging by the quite buff appearance, presumably it is a 1st-winter bird(?)

This looks like a solid flammea to me. General tone of the bird is bang on, compare to the above photos for yourself...

buzzard12 · Jan 10, 2007

Macswede said:
On the way down to the local shop to do some last minute Christmas shopping yesterday, I noticed a single Redpoll feeding in a tree. I dashed back to the flat to fetch my camera and took a series of pretty awful pictures. The weather was good but the bird was at the top of a very tall tree and most of the time hidden behind twigs.
I didn't think it looked like flammea. The bird gave a yellow/brown impression rather than the grey and pink of flammea so Ithought maybe cabaret. I'm not sure the images are good enough to make an ID possible but maybe someone would like to try.
Graham

Hi Graham,hope you are well...

Think these are 1st winter flammea. Sunshine is strong and warms the tones a little, still though, the general build, strong facial pattern, relatively clean flanks under ther streaking all point strongly to flammea for me. These birds appear very creamy below and around th thraot and supercilium.... Lesser would give a much warmer buff appearance, particularily in this sunshine....

J Jones · Jan 10, 2007

buzzard12 said:
Hi Graham,hope you are well...

Think these are 1st winter flammea. Sunshine is strong and warms the tones a little, still though, the general build, strong facial pattern, relatively clean flanks under ther streaking all point strongly to flammea for me. These birds appear very creamy below and around th thraot and supercilium.... Lesser would give a much warmer buff appearance, particularily in this sunshine....

I think I agree here - as my previous uploaded redpoll showed however, I am used to looking at these things on dull, rainy days, not when the warm sunshine is one them perhaps distorting the colour slightly!

Macswede · Jan 10, 2007

buzzard12 said:
Hi Graham,hope you are well...

Think these are 1st winter flammea. Sunshine is strong and warms the tones a little, still though, the general build, strong facial pattern, relatively clean flanks under ther streaking all point strongly to flammea for me. These birds appear very creamy below and around th thraot and supercilium.... Lesser would give a much warmer buff appearance, particularily in this sunshine....

Hi buzzard12,
I'm fine. Was over in Scotland for Hogmanay.
I'm really impressed by the redpoll pics you've been posting on this and other threads recently. I've seen a lot of redpolls in the last few weeks but find it difficult to get even a half decent shot. I'm beginning to recognize 1st winter flammea by this time and your cabaret shots are very helpful for comparison.
I saw one lone bird that I thought might have been an Arctic Redpoll but it flew off before I got a really good look or any kind of picture and it was probably just another flammea anyway. As you say there is a great deal of variety.

Graham

buzzard12 · Jan 11, 2007

Mealy Redpoll, male bird looking like a potential Arctic today at Årstafältet. Initially looked interesting due to the reduced markings on the flanks and paler pink colouration on the breast. You can see when the rump is shown that there is obvious streaking. Did not get to nail the undertail, but appeared to be very clean.

Happily and adult male Arctic was seen today, though I did not manage a photo...
May try grab an image tomorrow..

buzzard12 · Jan 11, 2007

Arctic Redpoll

1st Winter Arctic Redpoll, two days ago on Landsort where 5 birds were present , though I saw just three.

Only photo I got of this bird. Clean undertail is apparent here, as are clean flanks. Bird displayed a pristine white rump in the field, very clean white and totally unblemished. Small bill a good feature and was noticably smaller than Mealy Redpoll in direct comparison...

buzzard12 · Jan 11, 2007

Mealy Redpoll 1st winter.

Photos from today of Mealy Redpoll in 1st Winter plumage. Second photo shows the undertail coverts typical of this plumage...

...have also posted some decent quality videograbs of Mealy's on the blog at the link below...

Redpoll ID Thread, Winter 06/07 (1 Viewer)

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