Binoculars: With or without eyeglasses? (1 Viewer)

I have this dilemma, being myopic and having to use corrective eyeglasses during birding and astronomy.

First, it's nicer not to have to use eyeglasses. The view without eyeglasses, with the oculars directly against the face is optically better for these reasons:

1) Less ambient light entering
2) Easier to hold firmly and to align both axis
3) No additional 2 surfaces to keep clean

Disadvantages of not using eyeglasses are serious, and what kept me from using binos without eyeglasses.

1) It takes time to take them eyeglasses off and align the binoculars to the eyes. Having to constantly take them off/on and is very annoying, timing consuming and will lead to missed opportunities.

2) Taking off eyeglasses means you have to put them in a secure place so that they don't accidently get crushed or dirty. Given the cost of eyeglasses these days, it's important. This too takes time.

The chief problem with eyeglasses is that the binos are much harder to align properly as there is little to guide one to the proper position, other than trial and error.

This problem is made worse by the fact that some binos, like 10x32 will only work properly with proper placement, and are not forgiving. I suppose 7x42 is more forgiving. I have a 8x42 Trinovid and while it's not that bad, it has to be aligned just right, both horizontally and vertically, to display the right image. I think 8x30 has generally worse ER and is therefore potentially not the best choice for eyeglasses.

I found out that when I need to look at something, I don't take my eyeglasses off. But if I know there is an extended session before me, e.q. astronomy viewing, where I know the object won't change any, I like to use the binos without the eyeglasses. It's much easier not to use eyeglasses during extended sessions.

When I buy binoculars, I have to make sure they have:
(1) sufficient eye relief, at least 16mm and 18mm is even better, so that they are usable with eyeglasses;
(2) sufficient overdrive past infinity as I am so myopic, in order to be able to use binos without eyeglasses, I need about 6D of overdrive.

Leica 8x42 offers great ER of about 16mm but not enough overdrive at only 4D meaning I am unable to use it without eyeglasses. It is however great with eyeglasses. Leica 8x32 is an example that offers none of the above all that well, ER of about 13-14mm, doubtful that it would work for me, and same insufficient overdrive of 4D. Of course these wouldn't be an issue if I had great eyesight.

There are other solutions, like using contact lenses. I cannot wear them for more than about 5-6 hours, so that often, they are not an option and cannot be relied upon.

In short, in real life, I almost always use binos with eyeglasses, 90% of the time. However, the view is clearly better without eyeglasses, with the focus wheel turned all the way clockwise to compensate for myopia, but it's usually impractical.

etc,

Since I was around 8-10 years old I suffer from myopic, and need eyeglasses. I have had many binoculars in my life but about 10 years ago I decided to have only binoculars who provide a satisfying view with eyeglasses. I sold some great binoculars who could not offer that; Vixen Ultima 8x32 and Celestron Ultima 8x56 (the successors of the Ultima 8x56 had better eye relief than my example from early 90:s).

Like you I experienced it's unacceptable to use a binocular and constantly taking off and on the eyeglasses. If I want to see a flying bird it's gone before I make the chance to see it. Looking at the stars I miss the location if I cannot aim with the binocular. Taking off the eyeglasses makes this practically impossible at free hand use.

The myopic is an disadvantage because there are several otherwise excellent binoculars with too short eye relief for eyeglass use (Nikon E models (porro) and Swift 8,5x44 porro are two examples).
One other, as I think you mention, is that the focus span of many binoculars isn't adequate to compensate the myopic at long distance. My new Swarovski SLCnew7x42 is one of the best existing binoculars for eyeglass use. But no doubt about that the image is even better without the eyeglasses! You are completely right here; eyeglasses decrease as well contrast and sharpness. In some occasions I would prefer to use the binocular without the eyeglasses. But I noticed that I can hardly use the Swarovski at long distance without eyeglasses. It's unfortunate that not even these high-end models offer a wider focusing span.

Excuse my faulty english,

Patric

Regarding missed chances with glasses - I just lift them slightly with my left hand as I raise the bins with my right, and I rest them on top of the bins as I view (eyeglasses still on my ears). The eyeglasses need to be fitted a bit loose on the ears to do this. Not the safest handling for the eyeglasses, but I don't think I've ever dropped them. And it's very quick. It's a completely automatic motion for me now and I don't think I miss a thing.

Doesn't help with the myopia however. That's a tough one. Have you tried contacting the manufacturers about this? This must be a design issue they've considered.

If overtravel past infinity solves your problem, you might contact one of the authorized service centers to see if it is in any way possible to custom modify a pair for you. This might sound crazy, but even if there is no adjustable zero point, there might be a chance to do some slight machining to allow overtravel of the focus past infinity... ???? I'm just speculating here. Either the service people or the manufacturers should be able to answer this though (if you can get in contact with the right people anyway).

- Dave

Swedpat said:

etc,

My new Swarovski SLCnew7x42 is one of the best existing binoculars for eyeglass use. But no doubt about that the image is even better without the eyeglasses! You are completely right here; eyeglasses decrease as well contrast and sharpness. In some occasions I would prefer to use the binocular without the eyeglasses. But I noticed that I can hardly use the Swarovski at long distance without eyeglasses. It's unfortunate that not even these high-end models offer a wider focusing span.

Click to expand...

I think Swarovski 7x42 "Neu" will be my next purchase. The key reason for this, with greater ER, it's easier to hold against eyeglasses, and it also offers enough overtravel for me.
(Not to mention great FOV, Depth-of-field and stability off-hand.)

You must have myopia beyond 6 Diopters if you have issues with 7x42 SLC without eyeglasses, as 6 Diopters of focus overdrive past infinity is limit of 7x42 SLC as far as I understand (correct me if I am wrong).

It's incomprehensible that the newest (and more expensive than ever) revisions of Leica haven't gained any more focus overdrive than earlier Trinovids, which suggest to me that the Trinovid fundamentals have not been redesigned, just the body and the coatings.

I would buy another Leica if I could get 6 Diopters of over-travel, but 4D that it currently has means I will probably never buy another Leica just for this reason. Swaro SLC, or Zeiss or Nikon all offer more focus past infinity than Leica and are probably just as good anyway because non-expert users like myself cannot tell the difference.

Interesting.. My eyeglasses are fitted so tightly there is absolutely no room to lift them.

One idea about eyeglasses is to use eyeglasses frames like the ones used in US air-force and I imagine in air forces of other countries. The frame is not bend around the ears but is completely straight. Thus, you don't need to lift them above the ears but rather just pull them straight out in one swift motion. I hope that makes sense.
That kind of frame may offer some advantages for very quick removal if someone has to wear eyeglasses but doesn't want to use them with binos, for example if the binos have no ER at all, like an old copy of Zeiss porro I had.

Your idea about contacting the manufacturer is also intriguing. Then you are talking about a custom made binos.
I think it's simpler and more cost-efficient for me just to get a pair of binos that suffice on both fronts, i.e. great eye relief and sufficient over-travel past infinity. I think a Nikon and Zeiss would qualify.

I did write to Leica about offering more focus past infinity, as for me, it's the Achille's Hill of their entire binoculars line, in my experience.

dave_in_michigan said:

Regarding missed chances with glasses - I just lift them slightly with my left hand as I raise the bins with my right, and I rest them on top of the bins as I view (eyeglasses still on my ears).

Click to expand...

etc,

I understand that my myopia is quite strong, it has increased during the years.
I don't know how many diopters, but I need eyeglasses at distances of more than 20cm (8inch) to see sharp.

I find the SLC 7x42 Neu to be just excellent for eyeglasses, and the image quality and large sweet spot is excellent as well. Apart from that as you mention "great FOV, Depth-of-field and stability off-hand" were the properties who made me to choose this binocular. I think you will be satisfied with the SLC Neu!

Regards, Patric

dave_in_michigan said:

Regarding missed chances with glasses - I just lift them slightly with my left hand as I raise the bins with my right, and I rest them on top of the bins as I view (eyeglasses still on my ears). The eyeglasses need to be fitted a bit loose on the ears to do this. Not the safest handling for the eyeglasses, but I don't think I've ever dropped them. And it's very quick. It's a completely automatic motion for me now and I don't think I miss a thing.

- Dave

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Dave,

I know that some people solve the problem your way, but this just doesn't work with my eyeglasses.

Regards, Patric

etc,

I understand that my myopia is quite strong, it has increased during the years.
I don't know how many diopters, but I need eyeglasses at distances of more than 20cm (8inch) to see sharp.

Click to expand...

Same here. That's the key problem with using binos without eyeglasses. While you get an excellent view, you don't see anything around you, nor can you estimate where the object is so you can point binos that way.

I find the SLC 7x42 Neu to be just excellent for eyeglasses, and the image quality and large sweet spot is excellent as well.

Click to expand...

I currently use 8x42 Trinovid. I find it "OK" with regards to ER (It has about 16mm of ER) but just barely so. I wonder if the 7x42 would be even better, and easier to view through.

Swarovski 8.5x42 EL is also very good with ER, it has 18mm. I find it just right.
7x42 SLC officially has 19mm of ER. If it has 6 diopters of focus overtravel, then it's awesome.

The problems that you are having can be reduced if you chose a spectacle frame that is quite small, preferably circular and have it adjusted to fit as close to your eye as possible. Thus the ER needed by the specs is as small as possible.

Specifically to etc
You say you cannot manage more than 5 - 6 hours wear with contact lenses, what type of lenses were these? and did you remove them due to dryness problems?
If they were rigid gas permeable lenses, then try soft lenses, specifically lenses made from silicon hydrogel material which is very good at transmitting oxygen to the cornea. This type of material is also very good when someone has dryness problems with an ordinary hydrogel soft contact lens.

etc said:

I currently use 8x42 Trinovid. I find it "OK" with regards to ER (It has about 16mm of ER) but just barely so. I wonder if the 7x42 would be even better, and easier to view through.

Swarovski 8.5x42 EL is also very good with ER, it has 18mm. I find it just right.
7x42 SLC officially has 19mm of ER. If it has 6 diopters of focus overtravel, then it's awesome.

Click to expand...

etc,

I can assure you that the SLC 7x42 is better for eyeglasses than the 8x42 Trinovid. I have also tried the EL 8,5x42 several times and it's an excellent binocular, even with eyeglasses.
As well the SLC 7x42 and EL 8,5x42 have concave eyepiece lenses which makes it possible to have a very short recessment from the eyecup edge without risk to touch the eyeglasses, it's practically impossible. Because of that you can make maximal use of the eye relief. The stated 19mm ER of the SLC 7x42 is actually better than the 22mm ER of my former Pentax 8x43 DCF SP.


Regards, Patric

You say you cannot manage more than 5 - 6 hours wear with contact lenses, what type of lenses were these? and did you remove them due to dryness problems?

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Keith,

They are soft lenses with very high hydro content for maximum oxygen. I think that due to age, their oxygen permeability decreases no matter what you do. That may be the case here. I will try a new pair and see if it makes any difference. But I don't think I ever tolerated contacts very well for extended periods of 10-12 hours. No matter how good or fresh they are, the oxygen access they allow is just not going to be as without them, i.e. with eyeglasses which pose no such restriction.

I can assure you that the SLC 7x42 is better for eyeglasses than the 8x42 Trinovid. I have also tried the EL 8,5x42 several times and it's an excellent binocular, even with eyeglasses.
As well the SLC 7x42 and EL 8,5x42 have concave eyepiece lenses which makes it possible to have a very short recessment from the eyecup edge without risk to touch the eyeglasses, it's practically impossible. Because of that you can make maximal use of the eye relief. The stated 19mm ER of the SLC 7x42 is actually better than the 22mm ER of my former Pentax 8x43 DCF SP.

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Swedpat,

Interesting. I just noticed the difference. On the Leica, the oculars appear to be perfectly flat, and the Swaro EL does appear to be slightly concave. I get "OK" eye relief with Leica but somewhat better with the Swaro EL.

I wonder if the overly generous ER of Swaro 7x42 SLC will present problems, the same issue I had with Swaro EL 8.5x42. The stock eyecups did not go high enough to be used without eyeglasses and while the ER is excellent, given the insufficient eyecups height, there was too much ER. I had to upgrade the eyecups to 8x50 SLC eyecups and from there on, the ER/eyecups height was a perfect combination.


FWIW, Leica Trinovid 8x42 eyecups go up 0.455". It has ER of 15.5 or 16mm (I cannot find data for Trinovid BA) I find this eyecups height just perfect. Theoretically, the eyecups that just pull up are a bad design as they only allow for 2 settings: Down for eyeglasses and up for without eyeglasses. It should have more intermediate settings. In practice, it works very well - for me, anyway. They just snap into place at the right height.
Only problem is, I cannot use them in the up position, i.e. without eyeglasses due to the focus not going far enough to adjust for severe myopia. It's pretty close, but I need another diopter or so of overtravel.

Now Swarovski EL 8.5x42 has stock eyecups that go up only about 0.355 if I recall correctly, which in my experience was not sufficient given the generous ER of 18mm. This means you get blackouts. Yes, there is such a thing as too much eye relief. The upgraded 8x50 SLC eyecups that are designed for 21mm of ER go up 0.505" and work perfectly with EL - I twist them all the way out, then back them in slightly to the height that works for me. When I measured that height to determine what it was, I ended up with the height of the Leica Trinovid eyecups or 0.450" (they had it right all along)

Now I want to pose the question what eyecups come with Swarovski 7x42 SLC, the 18mm ER ones or the 21mm eye relief ones?
I fear if it's the former, they will have to be upgraded to the latter to avoid the problem of too much ER...
Swarovski's eyecup upgradeability is a good thing, as with Leica for example, you are stuck with the stock eyecups, whether you like them or not. I think Leica Ultravid eyecups which twist up a la Swarovski is a fundamentally better design than Trinovid's up or down eyecups.

etc,

My SLC7x42new is the former version without the "easy to clean"-coating.
The eyecups are stepless twistup type. They are perfectly suited for my needs with eyeglasses when they are fully down twisted, I can still see the entire FOV if I twist them up 2-3mm, but the image isn't that "open". IF you are not as demanding of eye relief as I am it may be possible that you experience blackouts. I understand that the eye cups of my SLC7x42 will not be suitable for everyone; the friction is too low to make the eye cups be still if they are twisted up some mm. This problem would be easy solved with some kind of washer to place between, however.

Regards, Patric

I have severe myopia (and astigmatism) also; I cannot recognize people's faces without glasses. I use 8 x 42 Vortex Vipers with glasses (progressive bifocals) and have none of the problems reported here. They seem to be perfectly centered every time I raise them to my face. They are listed as having 20 mm of eye relief, and sometimes I even raise the eye cups one-stop to decrease the eye relief.

Best,
Jim

My viewing is mostly without glasses, but I like to have a lighter 8x pair when using glasses. The holding and adjusting as you view is better, more comfortable. I use an 8x32. Without glasses I use 10x.