B##### Warbler: ID needed! (1 Viewer)

gmax · Sep 20, 2006

Hello everybody,
I must confess that I'm completely unuseful when it comes to ID warblers. This time, while walking along a country road, I heard a low single call coming from the thick undergrowth; I stopped and waited for a while, then I heard it again. I silently turned back and gained the best possible light conditions, mounted my gear and waited ... waited ... waited.
At last it came out for a nano second: it took me 20 minutes to gain a few metres and when close enough, I managed to take a couple of shots.
All in all, I stayed on the spot for more than an hour, with the amusement of some passer-by ... in the evening I stayed one more hour in front of my PC trying to ID it, but ... no way.
Therefore I decided to put it here, before uploading in my gallery, hoping to get some ID, more precise than my hypotheses (I tried wood warblers, garden warblers etc. but its greyish head puzzles me ...)
I hope to receive also some hints re. how to manage ID of these shy, wary species: my books help a bit, but I'd like to know where to start first
Thank you very much :clap:
Max

edenwatcher · Sep 20, 2006

Lesser whitethroat, Max. Nice pic. (and my 1000th post).

Rob

Andrew Whitehouse · Sep 20, 2006

I think probably an Orphean Warbler, a female or maybe an immature. Has quite a big feel and definitely a sylvia. The pale eye and tail pattern, as well as the overall colouration would suggest Orphean.

gmax · Sep 20, 2006

edenwatcher said:
Lesser whitethroat, Max. Nice pic. (and my 1000th post).

Rob

Wow Rob, thank you very much ... such a fast ID, well done!
Congratulations for your 1000th post, if they're always so fast you must have started posted yesterday

:clap:

gmax · Sep 20, 2006

Andrew Whitehouse said:
I think probably an Orphean Warbler, a female or maybe an immature. Has quite a big feel and definitely a sylvia. The pale eye and tail pattern, as well as the overall colouration would suggest Orphean.

Aaaaargh, things get complicated ... Help!

desgreene · Sep 20, 2006

I'd second Orphean. In addition to Andrew's comments, the beak looks very sturdy.

Des.

ps. great photo gmax :clap: :clap:

could you post the other shots you manged to get?

edenwatcher · Sep 20, 2006

Ignore me - I'm tired!

Rob

Jane Turner · Sep 20, 2006

This is one of those problems that wouldn't occur in the field, one species being small, slight and cute, the other being a hulking great beast of a Warbler. The under-tail coverts would be useful, but in the absence of those I'd plump for Orphean.... its looks a big bird.

TWM · Sep 20, 2006

Orphean for me as well.

gmax · Sep 20, 2006

Jane Turner said:
This is one of those problems that wouldn't occur in the field, one species being small, slight and cute, the other being a hulking great beast of a Warbler. The under-tail coverts would be useful, but in the absence of those I'd plump for Orphean.... its looks a big bird.

Thank you Jane, you're right .. but I was so busy spotting it out and taking pictures that I didn't stop and observe its features.
In any case I've posted another pic (as suggested by Des) in my gallery here .. hope it helps (sorry no undertail coverts' detail)
Looking forward to receiving your precious support :h?:
Thank you,
Max

Jane Turner · Sep 20, 2006

OOh eck, the second pic looks much better for Lesser Whitethroat. The white under the eye is marked, the bird has got smaller and there is enough of a view of the the UTCs to suggest that they are not barred.. weird.

Steven Astley · Sep 20, 2006

lesser whitethroat for me.

jforgham · Sep 20, 2006

well done edenwatcher

edenwatcher · Sep 20, 2006

Maybe I'm not as tired as I thought!

Rob

desgreene · Sep 20, 2006

Jane Turner said:
OOh eck, the second pic looks much better for Lesser Whitethroat. The white under the eye is marked, the bird has got smaller and there is enough of a view of the the UTCs to suggest that they are not barred.. weird.

I make it about eleven hawthorn berries long too, which sticks up for Lesser Whitethroat.

Beak/legs/feet still look too big though!

Des.

James Lowther · Sep 20, 2006

it's reassuring that, as Jane says, they are pretty easy to distinguish in the field...

Andrew Whitehouse · Sep 20, 2006

Hmm, more confused now. A few observations:

1. The bird, to me, doesn't look any smaller in the second picture and I still reckon the bill and overall impression are of a fairly big warbler.
2. The white below the eye is better for LW (although not sure how variable OW is in this), but wouldn't a LW also show some white above the eye?
3. Something I noticed in the first picture is the pattern on the undertail. There seems to be a broad black band curving up to a point in the middle of the undertail. Must admit, I don't know how good a feature this is or how variable in appearance, but going on the pictures Beaman & Madge (all I have to hand at the moment!) this is spot on for OW and not good for LW, which shows a mostly white undertail.
4. The most noticeable difference between the two pictures, to me anyway, is in the underparts. These appear quite grey in the first picture but much paler in the second. Light is obviously a factor here but the second picture shows quite a lot of burnt out areas, which makes me think it's a bit overexposed and the overall impression of tone is less reliable than in the more shaded first picture. Although the undertail looks white and unmarked in the second picture, most of this is either hidden or burnt out and so is hard to assess. The greyish underparts shown in the first picture are probably better for OW. I know the light's different but that bird looks very dark underneath for any LW.
5. That's a strikingly pale eye for a LW - whitish yellow, rather than dingy yellow, in both pictures.

I suspect some will be happy to ignore all these ambiguities and will conclusively pronounce one ID or the other. Any other views?

halftwo · Sep 20, 2006

My first impression was a big sylvia but I think this is because the photos such a close-up, I tried to reduce it but can't, so I got as far away from the screen as possible to make it more like a distant view! I can't help but think Lesser throat - I've looked on the web at other images and (like the fieldguides) can't find the eye spots in that crescent on any Orphean. I also can't find an Orphean with such clean unders - though I suspect I might if I carried on! I must say the bill looks chunky having said all that.

gmax · Sep 20, 2006

desgreene said:
I make it about eleven hawthorn berries long too, which sticks up for Lesser Whitethroat.

Beak/legs/feet still look too big though!

Des.

Mmmh, what I can say for sure it's that the warbler wasn't after berries, but insects ...

gmax · Sep 20, 2006

Andrew Whitehouse said:
Hmm, more confused now. A few observations:

Light is obviously a factor here but the second picture shows quite a lot of burnt out areas, which makes me think it's a bit overexposed and the overall impression of tone is less reliable than in the more shaded first picture. Although the undertail looks white and unmarked in the second picture, most of this is either hidden or burnt out and so is hard to assess. The greyish underparts shown in the first picture are probably better for OW. I know the light's different but that bird looks very dark underneath for any LW.

Agreed Andrew, as a matter of fact, light was very tricky in the undergrowth, although I did my best to expose correctly (my apology).
I've been digging through my donwloaded pics ... here's another one, more shaded though ... I may add that underparts were lighter/whitish on the throat and undertail, while the rest of the lower body was more like the 2nd pic

B##### Warbler: ID needed! (1 Viewer)

Sontium Dweller

Attachments

Well-known member

Professor of Listening

Sontium Dweller

Sontium Dweller

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Sontium Dweller

Well-known member

Well-known member

Birding for fun

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Professor of Listening

Wird Batcher

Sontium Dweller

Sontium Dweller

Attachments

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread