Spanish bats (1 Viewer)

ori76 · Oct 13, 2014

I recently bought a Micro Trio Ciel bat detector wich I am starting to learn to use it.

I will try to show here my findings, but also my doubts in sonograms.

First, detecting from home, in Madrid. 90% of the recordings are pipistrellus pipistrellus but sometimes something new crosses in front of my window. I have 5 recordings of what I might identify as pipistrellus khulli/nathusi. Nathusis can happen here, although it is not likely. However I manage to make a recording that included a social call with two components, which it is characteristic of Khullis (Nathusiis have a more sofisticated call). Correct me if I am wrong. I have uploaded both the wav file and the batexplorer sonogram.

HermitIbis · Oct 13, 2014

The frequency looks about right for Kuhl's pipistrelle (P. kuhlii), and the two-component call is said to be the most common social call of P. kuhlii. But the length of the call, about 120 ms, is confusing. Two sources in the net don't mention such an "extended" version. Russo ("The social calls of Kuhl's pipistrelles Pipistrellus kuhlii") has measured a maximum of 56 ms, Pfalzer (2002) a bit less. Maybe it is the three-component version? The third component looks a bit "damaged" though.

ori76 · Oct 14, 2014

Very interseting article. You allways find very useful information.
Despite not acomplishing all the requirements of the Khull's social calls described in the article it does not look like a nathusiis or pipistrellus...

HermitIbis · Oct 14, 2014

ori76 said:
Very interseting article. You allways find very useful information.
Despite not acomplishing all the requirements of the Khull's social calls described in the article it does not look like a nathusiis or pipistrellus...

By coincidence I am presently very interested in P. kuhlii myself. There was a 34 kHz bat in my recordings, and P. kuhlii is one of the few possibilities which I see. - By the way, Russo's findings on the social call of P. kuhlii are based only on 50 recorded bats. And I love the remark on their technical equipment:

The resulting sequence [...] was then replayed and recorded on Sony Metal XR cassettes by means of a Sony Professional Walkman WM 6C.

In 1999 the MP330 would have been high-tech!

HermitIbis · Oct 18, 2014

The British book on social calls offers no better explanation, there are no similar social calls from other British bats. It does cover P. kuhlii, and stresses how good the peak frequency distinguishes between the pipistrelle species. Further evidence are the echolocation calls of kuhlii in the same recording. Finally, it seems to be the 3-component version rather than the 2-component version (the 3rd swipe is short, but clear enough), and that may be longer.

Pfalzer's two papers (2002-3) were based on 14 social calls of kuhlii, the longest recorded call: 43.2 ms. Russo (1999) had recorded 50 social calls of kuhlii, here the longest measured call was 56.3 ms. - If someone were able to collect 100,000 calls, the observed maximum would grow even more. Your recording could be the "Bob Beamon" of all kuhlii calls. Or it is just an anomaly, an unusual social call of the species.

"Unusual social calls of Nathusius’ pipistrelle recorded outside the mating season" by Helena JAHELKOVÁ has an illustration on page 2: standard version of the social call, and then four variations. They look decidedly different. So how important are these new forms of the Nathusius' social call? A remark at the end is both sobering and refreshing:

Since 2006, the calls have not been recorded in 2007 (23.4., 10.5., 11.5., 12.5., 8.6., 9.6., 10.6.), 2009 (12.6.) and 2010 (11.6.). Moreover, the unusual calls were neither recorded in both maternity colonies (70 hours of observation, 1231 tonal calls analyzed).

It seems there is much "individual variation" in these social calls, also depending from the social situation, time of the year, and so on.

ori76 · Oct 18, 2014

HermitIbis said:
It seems there is much "individual variation" in these social calls, also depending from the social situation, time of the year, and so on.

Localization might be also a big issue in social calls differentiation. Although no different subespecies are within europe, there might be some diffetences between the khuliis from the study and the spanish ones.

Sun is back in Madrid, so plenty of bats around. Nearly all of my yesterdays TE recordings had a social call in it (most pupistrellus pipistrellus). Being Autumm the best moment for social calls I might end up with a nice library of social calls.

ori76 · Oct 26, 2014

Summer is back with temperatures up to 30 ºC, so bats are back aswell.

I am still focusing on the bats flying by my window. These are the three pipistrellus (pipistrellus, pygmaeus and khuliis). As we are in Autum plenty of social calls wich now I realized I can hear without detector (Bellow <20 KHz). See file where I think I gor the three of them at the same time.

Also, I got this strange social call of a pipistrellus which I think is a distress call as it has 8-10 elements although at quite high frequency (17KHz) while the book british bat calls said it should be 15 KHz

HermitIbis · Oct 26, 2014

Hi Ricardo,

your first picture looks indeed similar to the illustration in the British book, p. 107. But the authors mention FmaxE (roughly = peak) frequencies of 20-22 kHz. Also it seems unlikely to hear distress calls from bats in flight, wouldn't you agree? There is surely nobody in your vicinity who "handles" these bats. Maybe there is a simpler explanation: two standard social calls (peak 18kHz) generated from two bats in flight. By sheer coincidence these two calls may overlap and appear like one long call in your recording.

Can you perhaps post the wav file so that I can take a closer look and play around with the pic in BatExplorer?

Stefan

ori76 · Oct 27, 2014

HermitIbis said:
Maybe there is a simpler explanation: two standard social calls (peak 18kHz) generated from two bats in flight. By sheer coincidence these two calls may overlap and appear like one long call in your recording.

It seems to me very unlikely a coincidence like that. Besides, I have recorded three distress? calls like that. Here you can see two of them (direct recordings from the trascend)

By distress I understand that it does not necesary need to be from a bat in hand, but also from any situation of danger or warning alarm. These recordings I made were taken from my garden, where I stood stand still and bats nearly touched me, some of them crossing between my legs. So they might have realized that I am some kind of danger that made them produce a distress call (Just guessing)

HermitIbis · Oct 27, 2014

ori76 said:
It seems to me very unlikely a coincidence like that. Besides, I have recorded three distress? calls like that. Here you can see two of them (direct recordings from the trascend.

Hi Ricardo,

I agree that it seems unlikely. On the other side, the peak around 18 kHz gives us a hint that these are standard social calls of Common pipistrelles. Pfalzer had recorded 175 standard social calls, only 29 showed five components. So what could explain calls with more components?

For the first recording, I can offer an explanation: the call has four components, and between these components there are (weaker) echoes. Echoes are always to the right of the original signal. See first picture.

Your second recording is indeed a tough nut. I played around in BatExplorer for a while, but echoes can hardly explain such a call, as the "in-between" pulses are just as strong as the rest. So I really don't know. - Maybe, just maybe it could be two calls from two bats. Isn't there a small gap in the middle, where the intensity of the call is lower? [2nd picture.]

Stefan

ori76 · Oct 28, 2014

Ummm, echoes, I should have thought that myself. Thanks. Regarding the second record, who knows...

HermitIbis · Oct 28, 2014

In the second picture - the two "united" calls -, look at the three last components: their peak frequency is falling, you can draw a line through the yellow parts. Typical for a (single) social call, I believe.

ori76 · Nov 11, 2014

A vespertilio murinus has recently being discovered in central Spain, so a new addition to the list. Here is an update:

Rhinolophus ferrumequinum
Rhinolophus hipposideros
Rhinolophus euryale
Rhinolophus mehelyi
Myotis myotis
Myotis blythii
Myotis emarginatus
Myotis bechsteinii
Myotis mystacinus
Myotis alcathoe
Myotis natterei/escalerai
Myotis daubentonii
Myotis capaccinii
Pipistrellus pipistrellus
Pipistrellus pygmaeus
Pipistrellus nathusii
Pipistrellus kuhlii
Hypsugo savii
Nyctalus leisleri
Nyctalus noctula
Nyctalus lasiopterus
Eptesicus serotinus/isabellinus
Barbastella barbastellus
Plecotus auritus
Plecotus austriacus
Plecotus macrobullaris
Miniopterus schreibersii
Tadarida teniotis
Vespertilio murinus

Pipisterllus maderensis (Canary islands)
Plecotus teneriffae (Canary islands)

Myotis punicus (Melilla)

Where I live (Madrid) there are supposed to be 23 out of the 28 peninsular species.

HermitIbis · Nov 12, 2014

As a birder I learned that large cities have plenty of birds - sometimes more than our agricultural deserts. It seems bats are similar in this respect, many prefer to live close to human settlements. Pfalzer (2002) gives a photograph of an empty parking space, commenting that it was here where he regularly met a Leisler's bat / Lesser Noctule. It has become a bit cold here in Pforzheim, but maybe I'll start a last-minute attempt to find a Leisler's. We have so many nice parking spaces in Pforzheim...

ori76 · Nov 12, 2014

It is also freezing here, so I am afraid we have to wait till next spring...

ori76 · Feb 21, 2015

Bats are back. Tonight I recorded a single pipistrellus pipistrellus/pygmaeus (50 KHz) flying close to my window.

ori76 · Apr 26, 2015

I happen to find this plecotus in a tunnel in central Spain. Can any one confirm it is an austriacus, or is it impossible to distinguiss from the auritus by just pics?

While taking the pictures it did not emmit any sound at all, nor ultrasound, nor normal sound, so it seems it didnt care much about me.

Mike Richardson · Apr 26, 2015

ori76 said:
I happen to find this plecotus in a tunnel in central Spain. Can any one confirm it is an austriacus, or is it impossible to distinguiss from the auritus by just pics?

While taking the pictures it did not emmit any sound at all, nor ultrasound, nor normal sound, so it seems it didnt care much about me.

A bat expert (of which I am most certainly not)should be able to ID your bat from the photo.

For what it's worth I think the relatively long dark grey muzzle and broad, darkly pigmented tragus point towards austriacus.

MarkHows · Apr 26, 2015

ori76 said:
I happen to find this plecotus in a tunnel in central Spain. Can any one confirm it is an austriacus, or is it impossible to distinguiss from the auritus by just pics?

While taking the pictures it did not emmit any sound at all, nor ultrasound, nor normal sound, so it seems it didnt care much about me.

I agree with Mike a Grey Long eared bat

Mark

ori76 · Apr 26, 2015

I agree with you, but I have read that it is imposible to be 100% sure unless you have them in hand.

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