Zeiss HT wins Binocular review shootout (1 Viewer)

jremmons · Sep 19, 2015

I value detailed, comparative, field-based reviews such as this much more than something like Allbinos or bulk reviews you can find on EO, Amazon, etc. While knowing things like transmission values, etc. is nice, knowing the feel and practical use is much more useful, especially if it is being compared to models I already have experience with (even if we may disagree on some aspects, such as the WB SLC which I found to be fantastic in almost all respects).

Torview · Sep 19, 2015

Inquisitor said:
I know Swaros are super fantastic but I have trouble with the concept of the SLC being downgraded to where it is not much different than the Razor,MeoStar HD, Conquest level

I`v seen no evidence the optics have been downgraded, certainly not in the ones I`v tried, my understanding was the focus mechanism was modified to reduce production costs, but the glass and prisms were unchanged.

Theo98 · Sep 19, 2015

Torview said:
I`v seen no evidence the optics have been downgraded, certainly not in the ones I`v tried, my understanding was the focus mechanism was modified to reduce production costs, but the glass and prisms were unchanged.

In five 10x42 configuration comparison sessions, at 3 different retailers over the past 6 months (various inside\outside lighting conditions), I picked the SLC's Over the UVHD+'s, SV's and even the HT's (SF's not stocked yet) every time! For my eyes, the SLC's had the most neutral color balance, expansive FOV, razor sharpness, flare control and superb immersive DOF (for a roof). They always wowed me, still do, so I made my alpha purchase and didn't look back, that is till I got the big SV's in my hands...as they say, the rest is history!

However, when the opportunity presents itself, I'd like to glass and compare the 50 SV's with the SF 10x42's and even the 10x50 UVHD+'s...thus, the optical journey continues?! :t:

Ted

Vespobuteo · Sep 19, 2015

Another comparison:

"Color…the Conquest I feel has a more truer color than the HT which is slightly ‘washed’….and I think due to the light transmission of 95% compared to the Conquest at 90%."

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=258855

"washed" colors or "high transmission sparkle"?

pick what suits you...

B

Gijs transmission measurements (2013) of the 8x HT, FL and Conquest HD:s,
all three bins have their peek transmission in the green spectrum, 550-575nm, and are sloped in a similar way, not close to being a flat curve,

anyone compared the HD:s directly to the SF:s?

SuperDuty · Sep 19, 2015

Hi Ted

Do you see more of a 3D effect in your 10X50 SV than in the other binoculars you mention in your comparison ? I notice 3D mentioned for the SF and HT, but not for other roofs. I always thought the 3D in Porros came from the wide objective spacing, the SE I had in particular giving a great 3D view. When I'm looking through the SV I'm so transfixed that review terms don't enter my mind.

Robert

Theo98 said:
In five 10x42 configuration comparison sessions, at 3 different retailers over the past 6 months (various inside\outside lighting conditions), I picked the SLC's Over the UVHD+'s, SV's and even the HT's (SF's not stocked yet) every time! For my eyes, the SLC's had the most neutral color balance, expansive FOV, razor sharpness, flare control and superb immersive DOF (for a roof). They always wowed me, still do, so I made my alpha purchase and didn't look back, that is till I got the big SV's in my hands...as they say, the rest is history!

However, when the opportunity presents itself, I'd like to glass and compare the 50 SV's with the SF 10x42's and even the 10x50 UVHD+'s...thus, the optical journey continues?! :t:

Ted

Theo98 · Sep 19, 2015

SuperDuty said:
Hi Ted

Do you see more of a 3D effect in your 10X50 SV than in the other binoculars you mention in your comparison ? I notice 3D mentioned for the SF and HT, but not for other roofs. I always thought the 3D in Porros came from the wide objective spacing, the SE I had in particular giving a great 3D view. When I'm looking through the SV I'm so transfixed that review terms don't enter my mind.

Robert

I've not much experience with quality porros (own Bushnell 12x50s', vintage Japanese 7x35's, Yosemite 8x30's), but the big SV Does Excel in a very deep in-focus DOF with a very pleasing bokeh (foreground\background out-of-focus) and a superb edge-to-edge in-focus FOV that pulls you into the image as if you were there. Very similar, but much more Refined and Alive than the porros I mentioned above. Where I've seen several comments that the smaller SV's possess too flat an image, the 10x50 SV opens your eyes, pulls you into the scene and makes you forget your using binos...much like as been described by users of Hibichi's, EII's or SE's!

From memory, Yes, the 10x50 certainly presents a wonderful "3D" effect over anything I've used before. I'm going to perform direct comparisons soon of my 50 SV to other top roofs...3D effect perception being one of the optical parameters I'll be paying close attention to!

Ted

SuperDuty · Sep 19, 2015

Thanks Ted

brocknroller · Sep 19, 2015

If you could look at the light curve of an HT, which from the values that Gijs posted is almost parallel to the FL's light curve except with higher overall transmission and not quite as steep fall off in the red, it's easy to see why the HT and SF would have a yellow-green bias since the light curve looks like a dromedary camel with its tail down, with a huge hump in the middle and the light falling off in the red. You can even see the red reflected off the objectives, if it's not all being transmitted, it's coming back at you.

light curve at bottom of page

This also explains the reports of images looking "washed out" in bright sunlight. Sunlight is composed of the full spectrum of what the human eye can see, but our eyes are most sensitive to yellow-green so when you got a big boost in the yellow-green in AR coatings on a sunny day, it can be "overkill" on brightly lit objects. Great for cloudy days and low light.

I haven't seen the light curves for the Terra EDs, but the objectives reflect green (darker green in the case of the 8x42 and lighter green for the 8x32). I don't notice a yellow-green bias, and there's no wash out on brightly lit objects, so the AR coatings must be very different than Zeiss's top tiers'.

Brock

Vespobuteo · Sep 19, 2015

brocknroller said:
If you could look at the light curve of an HT, which from the values that Gijs posted is almost parallel to the FL's light curve except with higher overall transmission and not quite as steep fall off in the red, it's easy to see why the HT and SF would have a yellow-green bias since the light curve looks like a dromedary camel with its tail down, with a huge hump in the middle and the light falling off in the red. You can even see the red reflected off the objectives, if it's not all being transmitted, it's coming back at you.

light curve at bottom of page

This also explains the reports of images looking "washed out" in bright sunlight. Sunlight is composed of the full spectrum of what the human eye can see, but our eyes are most sensitive to yellow-green so when you got a big boost in the yellow-green in AR coatings on a sunny day, it can be "overkill" on brightly lit objects. Great for cloudy days and low light.

I haven't seen the light curves for the Terra EDs, but the objectives reflect green (darker green in the case of the 8x42 and lighter green for the 8x32). I don't notice a yellow-green bias, and there's no wash out on brightly lit objects, so the AR coatings must be very different than Zeiss's top tiers'.

Brock

coatings does not look the same on SF:s as on my FL:s (10 years old),
to me SF:s look more orange-gold-purple than my FL:s that are mostly purple,

But as Henry said, T* coatings might have been updated on later FL:s,
these photos below are pretty describing:

SF:s

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/...24222_0000_000_10x42_victory_t_sf_1073553.jpg

FL:s

http://images.nitrosell.com/product_images/14/3486/large-zeiss-victory-8x42-t-fl-binos.jpg

HT:s

http://www.cliftoncameras.co.uk/uploads/images/zeiss/Zeiss_Victory_HT.jpg

james holdsworth · Sep 19, 2015

brocknroller said:
If you could look at the light curve of an HT, which from the values that Gijs posted is almost parallel to the FL's light curve except with higher overall transmission and not quite as steep fall off in the red, it's easy to see why the HT and SF would have a yellow-green bias since the light curve looks like a dromedary camel with its tail down, with a huge hump in the middle and the light falling off in the red. You can even see the red reflected off the objectives, if it's not all being transmitted, it's coming back at you.

light curve at bottom of page

This also explains the reports of images looking "washed out" in bright sunlight. Sunlight is composed of the full spectrum of what the human eye can see, but our eyes are most sensitive to yellow-green so when you got a big boost in the yellow-green in AR coatings on a sunny day, it can be "overkill" on brightly lit objects. Great for cloudy days and low light.

I haven't seen the light curves for the Terra EDs, but the objectives reflect green (darker green in the case of the 8x42 and lighter green for the 8x32). I don't notice a yellow-green bias, and there's no wash out on brightly lit objects, so the AR coatings must be very different than Zeiss's top tiers'.

Brock

The 8x42 HT doesn't have a yellow-green bias - I don't think anyone has ever said that [and is in complete disagreement with the review on which you are commenting], nor does it ''wash out'' as you have said so often. In fact, I have found that the quality of baffling / stray light control actually increases detail and contrast in very strong light. Of course, that is just from someone that owns and uses one daily, so pretty much useless information.....

How do we go from Tobias saying that the HT is the most colour neutral of the lot to you saying it ''would'' have a yellow-green bias........ and Tobias saying the view for the HT is superb even in strong sunlight to you saying it ''washes out''?

You have never used either so your speculation is silly as usual. I agree completely with Mark and others that point out that reviews such as Tobias's are subjective and personal. Yours, on the other hand, are an exercise in promoting speculation without any facts - sort of the Fox News of Birdforum.

dwever · Sep 19, 2015

Excellent review. Want to order an HT from MidwayUSA.

Chosun Juan · Sep 20, 2015

" Like "

brocknroller said:
If you could look at the light curve of an HT, which from the values that Gijs posted is almost parallel to the FL's light curve except with higher overall transmission and not quite as steep fall off in the red, it's easy to see why the HT and SF would have a yellow-green bias since the light curve looks like a dromedary camel with its tail down, with a huge hump in the middle and the light falling off in the red. You can even see the red reflected off the objectives, if it's not all being transmitted, it's coming back at you.

light curve at bottom of page

This also explains the reports of images looking "washed out" in bright sunlight. Sunlight is composed of the full spectrum of what the human eye can see, but our eyes are most sensitive to yellow-green so when you got a big boost in the yellow-green in AR coatings on a sunny day, it can be "overkill" on brightly lit objects. Great for cloudy days and low light.

I haven't seen the light curves for the Terra EDs, but the objectives reflect green (darker green in the case of the 8x42 and lighter green for the 8x32). I don't notice a yellow-green bias, and there's no wash out on brightly lit objects, so the AR coatings must be very different than Zeiss's top tiers'.

Brock

james holdsworth said:
The 8x42 HT doesn't have a yellow-green bias - I don't think anyone has ever said that [and is in complete disagreement with the review on which you are commenting], nor does it ''wash out'' as you have said so often. In fact, I have found that the quality of baffling / stray light control actually increases detail and contrast in very strong light. Of course, that is just from someone that owns and uses one daily, so pretty much useless information.....

How do we go from Tobias saying that the HT is the most colour neutral of the lot to you saying it ''would'' have a yellow-green bias........ and Tobias saying the view for the HT is superb even in strong sunlight to you saying it ''washes out''?

You have never used either so your speculation is silly as usual. I agree completely with Mark and others that point out that reviews such as Tobias's are subjective and personal. Yours, on the other hand, are an exercise in promoting speculation without any facts - sort of the Fox News of Birdforum.

.

Damnn! . But youu funny! . boyy! .

) . :-O

Now, where exactly is that "like" button again?!! :t:

Chosun :gh:

brocknroller · Sep 20, 2015

James, as always... defending his brand... a Zeiss defender. When all else fails use the old, I got one and you don't ploy and ignore everyone includuing Tobias who has used the bins and made the same observations with their own two eyeballs as well Henry's photos and my possible explanation for the bias with the graphics and Gijs figures (wish I had bookmarked that post, not that it would matter in this case).

So the bins have a yellow-green bias, so what? It's not the end of the world (as we know it). It's just different, and it can be advantageous in some circumstances. No cause to take it personally, but like the SV EL diehards, any comment that does not flatter their binoculars is met with derision. That's getting pretty old at this point.

Chosun Juan · Sep 20, 2015

brocknroller said:
James, as always... defending his brand... a Zeiss defender. When all else fails use the old, I got one and you don't ploy and ignore everyone includuing Tobias who has used the bins and made the same observations with their own two eyeballs as well Henry's photos and my possible explanation for the bias with the graphics and Gijs figures (wish I had bookmarked that post, not that it would matter in this case).

So the bins have a yellow-green bias, so what? It's not the end of the world (as we know it). It's just different, and it can be advantageous in some circumstances. No cause to take it personally, but like the SV EL diehards, any comment that does not flatter their binoculars is met with derision. That's getting pretty old at this point.

Brock, you have me in two minds about this:-

1. You are either as funny as fc*k, drier than a dead dingo's donger, and know full well that you're trotting out bunkum and LOL as you type every word, ....... or .......

2. You actually believe this stuff, have escaped the funny farm, and are busily flying around over the cuckoo's nest!

I dunno ......... but I do know that the x42HT has a wonderfully clear, neutral colour rendition, with surprisingly saturated reds and blues considering the hill 60 transmission curve ..... :cat:

Chosun :gh:

Hermann · Sep 20, 2015

Chosun Juan said:
I do know that the x42HT has a wonderfully clear, neutral colour rendition, with surprisingly saturated reds and blues considering the hill 60 transmission curve ..... :cat:

Yep. In fact, I find the Zeiss has just about the most neutral colour rendition of all binoculars I know.

Hermann

kkokkolis · Sep 20, 2015

Could this ad hominem stop both ways please, in order to enjoy on topic discussions?

sako · Sep 20, 2015

brocknroller said:
.... includuing Tobias who has used the bins and made the same observations.....

The point is Brock, that Tobias didn't say the HT's had a yellow-green bias.

Vespobuteo · Sep 20, 2015

sako said:
The point is Brock, that Tobias didn't say the HT's had a yellow-green bias.

But some people say....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYA9ufivbDw

:-O

anyway, the transmission graph of the HT will be heavy technical evidence in binoculars court,
being charged for green-yellow bias is very serious,
wonder how the defense will explain it....hump hump...
a bunch of eye witnesses perhaps?

myself beeing completely neutral as always...

o

mnich · Sep 20, 2015

Subzero888 said:
Tobias, You have put in a lot of time reviewing the 5 bins. It is a great read and I an happy to see Leica still holding its own.

I also noticed Leica is missing in this section about 3D. How did you find the 3D DOV in the UV HD+?

Dear, I noticed that the 3D effect in roof-prism binoculars mainly depends on the precise alignment axis collimation in a horizontal position.
I researched a topic for many models of different brands.
It often happens that even models of the big three have not exactly set the optical alignment.
It should not be based on the examination of one copy of a particular brand infer the strength of the 3D effect.

brocknroller · Sep 20, 2015

mnich said:
Dear, I noticed that the 3D effect in roof-prism binoculars mainly depends on the precise alignment axis collimation in a horizontal position.
I researched a topic for many models of different brands.
It often happens that even models of the big three have not exactly set the optical alignment.
It should not be based on the examination of one copy of a particular brand infer the strength of the 3D effect.

Another non-ersatz parameter impacting the 3-D effect... This reminded me of something that Surveyor wrote a while back, namely, that companies can purposely impact the 3-D effect by tweaking the alignment of the lenses and prisms. I don't remember the details, but this wasn't a haphazard misalignment but rather something that companies did purposely to enhance the view. If anyone remembers what he wrote, please chime in.

He wrote this in response to my surprise that the ZR 7x36 ED2 roof seemed to have about as good a 3-D view as my 8x30 EII porro. I thought that perhaps this was due to the 7x having better depth of field than 8x, but this alone didn't seem enough considering it was still a roof vs. porro.

When looking at a group of people standing in a circle at a distance (~400 ft.) I could see them separated from each other at a distance that was close to what I could see naked eye, maybe a bit less. What really surprised me is that the group seemed to be separated apart a bit more through the ED2.

With the 8x32 LX, which Kimmo said has the objectives slightly close together than the EPs, the people seemed to be standing right in front of each other rather than a few feet apart.

According to Surveyor, the perception of greater depth was due to the way the optics were aligned in the 7x ED2, which he had examined. This could explain why some roofs (all with S/P prisms) seem to show better 3-D than others. Other factors that Henry mentioned such as field curvature might also contribute to these differences so that when all added up, one roof of the same magnification looks noticeably different than the other in regard to depth perception and 3-D effect.

Brock

Zeiss HT wins Binocular review shootout (1 Viewer)

Wildlife Biologist

Well-known member

Eurasian Goldfinch

Well-known member

Well-known member

Eurasian Goldfinch

Well-known member

porromaniac

Well-known member

Consulting Biologist

Well-known member

Given to Fly

porromaniac

Given to Fly

Well-known member

&#928;&#949;&#961;&#943;&#949;&#961;&#947;&#959;&#

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

porromaniac

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread

Περίεργο&#