E-520 with manual M42 lenses - yes or no? (1 Viewer)

I have an old 300mm prime M42 screw mount lens, and had the idea that it could be used on something like an E-520, giving me a relatively cheap DSLR with IS. The price would be that I would have to manually focus and set the aperture. The aperture is no problem, getting sufficient light is usually such a problem that it would probably be permamently on the widest setting anyway.

I bought an adapter off eBay for a few dollars, and headed off to the camera shop to try it out.

The first shop was fine with it, but wasn't able to advise on how to set the exposure on the camera. I was thinking I should set it to aperture priority, set the aperture setting on the camera to match whatever I've set it to on the lens, and then it would tell me what shutter speed I need to set.

I don't know if that's a bit naive, but they couldn't tell me how to do it, and didn't really seem to understand what I was trying to do. They kept insisting that because the lens wasn't digital, it "couldn't tell the camera how much light is getting through". I can understand that it can't tell the camera the lens settings, but I know lenses don't come with light meters.

I could take photos, but getting the exposure right was hit and miss. I was expecting at least a histogram I could look at while I adjusted the shutter speed. I wasn't going to waste my time or theirs going through the manual to work it out, so I went to another shop.

The second shop refused to let me put it on the camera. They said my adapter would damage their camera. They said I'd have to buy an Olympus adapter (for $200) to attach to my adapter (not directly to the lens). I expect that even if I was willing to do that, surely I'd be unable to focus to infinity. I guess he has a point that the aperture pin thing on the lens could bend or short out the contacts, but it did seem ok in the first shop (luckily).

Has anyone tried this? Does this work? If it does, what do you have to do with the camera to make it work? And can the camera be damaged?

I have successfully used a M42 mount lens on my E-520 by using an adapter, as you described. The lens I have is a 50mm F1.4 Chinon that I used to use on a Pentax Spotmatic way back when.

The only issue here is whether you can MANUALLY stop down the aperture on the lens. In other words, does the lens have both an aperture control ring and also a MANUAL/AUTO SWITCH? Some old lenses have it, some don't.

The manual/auto switch, when in manual mode, makes the lens physically stop down to the aperture that the lens is set to. In other words, the aperture blades close down - you can look into the lens and see them close down. This was used for depth-of-field preview - i.e. you stop the lens down to its actual aperture and see the DOF in the viewfinder.

With lenses that do not have this switch, the lens doesn't get stopped down till you take the picture (using an old camera), when the camera pushes the pin that stops the lens down.

If your lens does have this manual/auto swith, all you have to do is set the lens to manual, dial whatever aperture you want, set you camera to Aperture mode, and you're all set. The camera automatically sets the shutter speed to what is required for a proper exposure - that's what Aperture priority does - it doesn't have to be told what the aperture is set to, it just reads the light coming in and sets a shutter speed. Only trouble is that the viewfinder will be dark because you are seeing thru a stopped-down lens.

Even if your lens does not have the manual/auto switch, you can still use it, but you will have to use it wide open - in other words, set the aperture control on the lens to be wide open and then use the lens in Aperture mode on the camera (actually, it doesn't matter what you set the aperture ring on the lens to - it will always be wide open). Again, the camera will automatically set a shutter speed that is required for the amount of light coming in. This is how folks use those 500mm mirror lenses, for example:

http://www.adorama.com/PRO50063XX.html

These lenses have no aperture control - always wide open. Just mount them on the camera and use Aperture priority and you're all set.

Thanks for the detailed answer, I think I understand now. It explains why I was fluking reasonable exposures in the shop.

I was thinking that the camera had to know what the aperture really was, in order to calculate the correct shutter speed, but of course it only has to measure the light coming through, it doesn't matter how it gets there.

No, it doesn't have a manual switch but, as I mentioned, it's likely to be used wide open most of the time anyway. My compact camera is permanently on f3.5 aperture priority, so I guess an f5.5 lens will be too. I suppose I can somehow jam the aperture pin if I want to change it - it'll never be used for its original purpose again, so it shouldn't matter.

Can anyone comment on how well the camera should work with this 300mm lens apart from this? Does the camera need to know the focal length for the IS to work?

I've been reading about adapters with chips in them that trick the camera into thinking they have an electronic lens attached. They sound like a good idea, has anyone used one who can comment on their effectiveness? Will the camera really tell me when it thinks I've got it focused?

pshute said:

The second shop refused to let me put it on the camera. They said my adapter would damage their camera. They said I'd have to buy an Olympus adapter (for $200) to attach to my adapter (not directly to the lens). I expect that even if I was willing to do that, surely I'd be unable to focus to infinity. I guess he has a point that the aperture pin thing on the lens could bend or short out the contacts, but it did seem ok in the first shop (luckily).

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Can anyone comment on this? Is there any chance at all that the adapter could damage the camera? Or maybe the protruding aperture pin?

well since they sell the adapters to be use I do believe he was jerking ya around,, know many people using various adapters for lens to body combos which are not Oly made and have never heard of any adapter hurting a camera,, the over-all quality level of some of them can very different,,

as mentioned the lens does need the ability to dial in the aperture setting or f stop to be able to use proper,, newer lens do not offer this ability,, I do not have the 510 but imagine it works close to my E3,, I use scopes and old legacy glass regularly and always run the camera in the m (manual) mode,,

set your ISO and then the f stop (on the lens) you want to use,, the camera should offer a meter scale display if the exposure is over or under for the ISO and F stop you have selected and then use the thumb wheel to dial in the appropriate exposure speed until centered on the cameras meter,, if the speed is way to slow, to center the meter, then the ISO or f stop can be adjusted to assist as the camera can only read the light it is receiving when in M mode for proper exposure,,

surprised the salesman at the one store did not know how to use a camera in M mode but in today's offerings they mostly just move merchandise and not a lot on technical help,,

Derry

pshute said:

Can anyone comment on this? Is there any chance at all that the adapter could damage the camera? Or maybe the protruding aperture pin?

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I don't think so. With my lens, the pin just sort of sits there, not doing anything.

Also, you asked about image stabilization. Yes, you can set the IS for the focal length. On the E-520, you press the IS button (on the 4-direction arrow pad) and then press the +/- button (normally used for Exposure Compensation) and then the wheel to enter the focal length of the lens, in your case 300.

Note that when you use a modern lens, the focal length that you set here doesn't affect it - i.e. you can leave it set at 300 if the only legacy lens you are using is that 300mm one.

As far as the adapters that have a chip that indicates focus, I have one on an old 120-600mm lens. It seems to work fairly well, but I just got the lens recently, so I haven't tried it much. In this case, the adapter with the chip was almost as cheap as a regular adapter, so I just got it along with the lens.

Derry indicates that you shoud use Manual mode with the lens, but I don't see any reason not to use Aperture mode, which is slightly easier (and what I use for just about everything, even modern lenses).

The pin (auto pin) on a non manual lens just needs to be pushed forward for the aperture ring to function. You can buy adapters that have a "lip" on the inside diameter to do just this. The alternative is to make a pusher lip and fit it into your existing adapter. I made one by sawing off the threaded part of a plastic M42 body cap, filing a recess for my AF confirm chip, and fitting it onto the converter. It works fine The other option (only if you NEVER intend to use the lens on an old camera again) is to bend the auto pin slightly so that it jams in the forward position. Some people glue it in place too.

BTW, if you don't have the pin forward while screwing the lens on it will hit the AF confirm chip as it rotates. You are supposed to fit the lens to the adapter before fitting the adapter to the camera for this very reason. With the lip fitted the pin is pushed back as it goes on, allowing the adapter to remain on the camera between lens swaps.

Heres a link to my Flickr stream (sorry no good bird pics yet) but all my pics are from manual lenses on an E510.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mad_sunday/

Pete

Another quick addition.........

Explanation of how the "auto pin" worked.........when you focus on these old cameras the wide open aperture let plenty of light in making focusing easier. When you pressed the shutter release the pin was pushed forward "automatically" closing the aperture to it's preset position.

And here's a link to a great forum, and a post on it about adapters with the added "lip".

http://forum.mflenses.com/m42-to-sonyaf-sigma-fourthirds-adapters-with-inner-flange-t16381.html

Pete

Mad_Sunday said:

The pin (auto pin) on a non manual lens just needs to be pushed forward for the aperture ring to function. You can buy adapters that have a "lip" on the inside diameter to do just this. The alternative is to make a pusher lip and fit it into your existing adapter. I made one by sawing off the threaded part of a plastic M42 body cap, filing a recess for my AF confirm chip, and fitting it onto the converter. It works fine The other option (only if you NEVER intend to use the lens on an old camera again) is to bend the auto pin slightly so that it jams in the forward position. Some people glue it in place too.

BTW, if you don't have the pin forward while screwing the lens on it will hit the AF confirm chip as it rotates. You are supposed to fit the lens to the adapter before fitting the adapter to the camera for this very reason. With the lip fitted the pin is pushed back as it goes on, allowing the adapter to remain on the camera between lens swaps.

Heres a link to my Flickr stream (sorry no good bird pics yet) but all my pics are from manual lenses on an E510.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mad_sunday/

Pete

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Thanks for that. I hadn't even considered yet how I would depress the pin, as I always use a long lens and 99% of shots are wide open anyway. I'd probably be happy to just bend the pin, I'm not going to use it in a film camera again.

I'm more interested in how usable you find the manual lens for bird photography. I reckon I'd find it frustratingly slow to focus, but it might be better with an AF confirm chip. Have you tried using it to focus as quickly as possible?

I doubt I'd find my focusing very accurate without the chip, the screen isn't that good. And my 300mm is only f5.6, your 260 seems to be 3.5, lucky you.

I've also just discovered that E-510s are reasonably priced on eBay compared to E-520s. Can anyone think of any massive advantages the latter has over the former?

The AF chip method is NOT fast. I only use it on close up shots if the light is bad. What I tend to do is use the viewfinder and trust my eyes. I focus the best I can then shift focus forward and back until the image gets blurred and use the centre of those 2 limits.
This is not going to better an auto focus system, except on price. That 75-260mm zoom cost £6.86, about A$12 ! You might be better looking for something like the Tair 300mm or a nice Pentacon 300 f4, both available on eBay (in Europe) for between £40 and £90. Both are popular with birders and a good prime lens will always be better than a zoom. Google for both and you will find loads of pics.
If you can get away with a 200mm lens, the Chinon 200mm f3.5 is a really good lens and they sell for peanuts on ebay.

I "think" the E520 has a brighter viewfinder so it should be easier to use.

Pete

p.s. My zoom IS NOT f3.5, thats what the camera "thinks" it is. You have to manually change the focal length info the AF chip passes to the camera, and I can't be bothered.

I've just re-read your first post. If you already have the lens go for it. You can get a chinese M42 to 4/3 adapter on eBay for £20 with an AF chip already fitted.
I'm not a great fan of IS to be honest. I think if I knew then what I know now, I would have bought an E410 and saved a pile of money.

Pete

Mad_Sunday said:

The AF chip method is NOT fast. I only use it on close up shots if the light is bad. What I tend to do is use the viewfinder and trust my eyes. I focus the best I can then shift focus forward and back until the image gets blurred and use the centre of those 2 limits.

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But once you've done that, the AF confirmation should come on, shouldn't it? Where I lose time is going through the process you described about three times just to be sure, when in fact you can't be sure. I was hoping the AF confirmation would mean I'd decide on a focus setting a bit quicker, and have the confidence that the confirmation light had done a better job than I could. Maybe it would be better to just do manual focus bracketing for each shot.

Mad_Sunday said:

This is not going to better an auto focus system, except on price. That 75-260mm zoom cost £6.86, about A$12 !

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Yep, that's the whole idea. I have a prime 300mm f5.6. It's only Takumar, but it seemed to get ok results when I last used it on film, years ago. That means I can get into SLR photography again for just the price of a second hand E-510. If I find it's working well, I'd consider getting a 70-300 AF lens after a while, which would be faster and most likely sharper.

Mad_Sunday said:

I "think" the E520 has a brighter viewfinder so it should be easier to use.

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Hmm, that's a bit of a drawback. I think I heard the same thing about the E-620, so perhaps you're thinking of that one?

Mad_Sunday said:

p.s. My zoom IS NOT f3.5, thats what the camera "thinks" it is. You have to manually change the focal length info the AF chip passes to the camera, and I can't be bothered.

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I wondered about that.

Mad_Sunday said:

I've just re-read your first post. If you already have the lens go for it. You can get a chinese M42 to 4/3 adapter on eBay for £20 with an AF chip already fitted.

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"Already fitted"? Does that mean I could get a chip for the adapter I already have? I bought one to try my lens in shops before I knew about the AF confirmation chips.

Mad_Sunday said:

I'm not a great fan of IS to be honest. I think if I knew then what I know now, I would have bought an E410 and saved a pile of money.

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Does it not work well for you? Can't you just turn it off?

I have been shopping around for an SLR on the assumption that I would *have* to have it. I use a Canon Powershot S3 and a Panasonic FX30, both with IS, almost always hand held at full zoom, at about 700mm EFL with teleconverter, and very often at less than 1/100. I'm under the impression I'm only getting away with it because of the IS.

As Pete said, the autofocus confirmation is not fast at all, but yes, it will help confirm for you that you have attained focus. However, I have found that there is a lot of leeway in when the light stays on - i.e. when it first turns on, you can still turn the focus a fair amount more before it turns off. No doubt this is because of depth-of-field, but usually only one of those focal points is really what you want, and it can be hard to tell which.

One technique that I know of for this kind of shooting is called "focus bracketeing" - like exposure bracketing, but with focus instead. The way you do this is to get approximately at the correct focus point and then use burst mode on your camera to take a bunch of shots, say ten. While the camera is shooting (while you hold the shutter button down), you slowly turn the focus ring. What this will get you is a series of shots, each with a slightly different focus. Hopefully one of them will be what you want.

Obviously, all this fiddling takes time, and for sure you cannot use such a technique for quick-moving birds. But for things like egrets standing in the marsh, or owls just sitting in a tree, it can be very effective.

As far as IS, I think it is just another tool in your arsenal, so it is better to have it than not, so why not get a camera that has it. I usually use a tripod, but when I want to go light-weight and use a monopod or even hand-hold, I'm very glad I have IS.

RAH said:

As Pete said, the autofocus confirmation is not fast at all, but yes, it will help confirm for you that you have attained focus. However, I have found that there is a lot of leeway in when the light stays on - i.e. when it first turns on, you can still turn the focus a fair amount more before it turns off. No doubt this is because of depth-of-field, but usually only one of those focal points is really what you want, and it can be hard to tell which.

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You can set it to only use the middle one, can't you?

RAH said:

One technique that I know of for this kind of shooting is called "focus bracketeing" - like exposure bracketing, but with focus instead. The way you do this is to get approximately at the correct focus point and then use burst mode on your camera to take a bunch of shots, say ten. While the camera is shooting (while you hold the shutter button down), you slowly turn the focus ring. What this will get you is a series of shots, each with a slightly different focus. Hopefully one of them will be what you want.

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That sounds like a good technique, possibly better than automatic focus bracketing. When you do this, does the AF confirmation light go off and on again each time you pass the "proper" focus point?

I must admit that I have mixed feelings about focus bracketing. It means you're sure of at least some focused shots, but then you look at the better poses that happen to be the unfocused ones, and you start to wonder.

Sorry for all these questions, but it looks like I'll have to buy just a body and use it with this MF lens for a while, and I don't want to find I desperately need an AF lens on the first day.

pshute said:

You can set it to only use the middle one, can't you?

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I'm not sure what you mean. What I was saying is that the chip tells you that it is in focus over a range of focal points - i.e. while you turn the ring, it continues to tell you that it is in focus for awhile. There is no way to fine-tune it to be more selective.

I tried my 120-600mm lens yesterday with some of these techniques. I found that the chip is pretty sensitive about focus - that the light did not stay on as long as I thought from the first time I used it. In other words, it seems pretty accurate about focus. But it does not come on fast - you have to turn the focus ring and kind of wait for it to report to you. But it does seem accurate when it comes on. I do think it is a helpful aid, but NOT for action shots.

I also tried some focus bracketing. I found that you do NOT have to turn the focus ring much to do it correctly. In fact, in my first tests, I was turning it much too much - I would get fuzzy shots, followed by maybe one good shot, followed by fuzzy shots on the other side as it went out of focus. The correct way to do it seems to be to get it very close to perfect and then turn it very slightly as you fire off about 5-10 shots. A slight turn of the focus ring makes a big difference.

As far as even using these techniques, don't forget - these manual focus lenses were made when cameras had much better focusing screens in the viewfinder, so it wasn't as difficult to focus back in the 70s with film SLRs. When autofocus became common, they eliminated the focus aiding viewfinder displays, so you are left with just a plain screen with little to help you. Only the top end cameras take replacable viewfinder screens nowadays. Also, even with these focus tools in the viewfinder, manually focusing a high-power telephoto lens has ALWAYS been very difficult.

You can get a 3rd-party replacement screen for the E-510 and 520, and probably others, but it is very difficult to replace and I wouldn't touch it.

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier but I've been camping for a week. It only rained twice.......once for three days and once for four days anyway......

I find that using long lenses makes the AF chip less reliable. In fact it's very poor to be honest. Using my 135mm lens it seems fine but once I start to use longer lenses it's not good at all. It's also difficult to know if your blurred pictures are due to focus or camera shake. The only way to eliminate (reduce?) shake is with a tripod and remote shutter release. Non of these options can be classed as "fast" methods of taking pictures.

IS functions need lens focal length data to be input to the chip. Again this seems to be more important the longer the lens. The other thing that no one seems to mention about IS is that it only seems to work with slower shutter speeds. The longer your lens, the more camera shake becomes a problem. This is when you have to choose between IS or a faster shutter speed to freeze out the shake. Seems to me you will always be better off using a faster speed, thus making the IS redundant.

Yes, you can buy a chip only and fit it yourself. I would suggest you get the latest version of the Dandelion chip.

I just bought another adapter (for use with old Olympus OM lenses) but I got one WITHOUT a chip, so I guess thats tells you something. There are some very inexpensive "split" focus screens available on eBay for E4xx and E5xx cameras. Reading reviews they seem to work OK but are not the easiest things to fit. I am thinking of getting one tho'

Pete

What about a Porst 300mm f/5.6 MC Super (M 42) lens? Will work with an E-520?

Cristian Mihai said:

What about a Porst 300mm f/5.6 MC Super (M 42) lens? Will work with an E-520?

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I don't know that lens but if it's a "normal" M42 lens it should work fine with a M42 to 4/3rds adapter.

Pete

Hmmm, I found this lens on web at a price about 84 Euro (VAT included). I will try to find the M42 to 4/3rds adapter...