Head. plate and scope falling off. (1 Viewer)

Head, plate & scope falling off.

I recently bought a Zeiss 85 T FL 20-60 green/angled scope. I'm love the scope but want to upgrade my tripod. I will probably get a Bogen/Manfrotto 055 series legs (3221WN or 3021BN) but I'm trying to decide whether to go with the 700RC2, 3130QR (128RC), or 501 (3433) head.

I lean toward the 700RC to save weight and toward the 501 to maximize performance. The 3130 (a compromise in weight between the two) however is the only one of the three that can be used with the 200CZ1 Zeiss plate. Bogen's tech support claims that eventually the screw holding the scope will work its way loose w/o this plate and the scope will fall off (not a good thing). I would appreciate any information on what others here use, what they think of the 200CZ1 Zeiss plate, and if they don't use it have they had problems with the scope screw working its way loose? Thanks much. Jim

Hi Jim,
Of course you know it best how much you are going to need light weight or stability/performance - all your alternatives are good. I can not see big problems with "other" types of plates because so many just use them happily. You must notice if the scope is getting loose before it actually falls off. I would give my vote to 501 (despite the weight) because of its superior stability, friction controls and the possibility to use a long plate to balance the possible scope-camera combo (which may be very back heavy). :t:

Ilkka

JimG said:

I recently bought a Zeiss 85 T FL 20-60 green/angled scope. I'm love the scope but want to upgrade my tripod. I will probably get a Bogen/Manfrotto 055 series legs (3221WN or 3021BN) but I'm trying to decide whether to go with the 700RC2, 3130QR (128RC), or 501 (3433) head.

I lean toward the 700RC to save weight and toward the 501 to maximize performance. The 3130 (a compromise in weight between the two) however is the only one of the three that can be used with the 200CZ1 Zeiss plate. Bogen's tech support claims that eventually the screw holding the scope will work its way loose w/o this plate and the scope will fall off (not a good thing). I would appreciate any information on what others here use, what they think of the 200CZ1 Zeiss plate, and if they don't use it have they had problems with the scope screw working its way loose? Thanks much. Jim

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I think what he means is that the Zeiss scope has a threaded insert reducer in its tripod plate (presumably this is a case hardened reducer. Preventing wear on the alloy threads of the scope). This does work loose, but only (in my short experience) when the QR plate is removed. Screwing the QR plate into the insert has the effect of tightening it up. Unscrewing it does sometimes result in the insert itself unscrewing from the base.

The problem depends mainly on how often you remove the plate. In my case I have a cullmann hide clamp, which has a different size QR plate, so I do from time to time swap plates around. To solve the problem I have removed the insert and coated the threads with loctite, to hold it in more securely. Which has solved the problem.

I doubt very much whether the scope can fall off the tripod though. As I said tightening the QR plate has the effect of screwing up the insert. Most scopes rely soley on an alloy threaded base with a small diameter thread. The Zeiss has this bush as a safety feature.

I see so many birders carrying around scopes with a strap on the scope itself. The whole weight of the tripod and head is relying on the 6mm tripod screw. I see this as folly. I am sure lots of birders end up with stripped threads resulting from tripods pulling out. Always Always carry your scope and tripod by a strap around the tripod itself and not just the scope!!

I see so many birders carrying around scopes with a strap on the scope itself. The whole weight of the tripod and head is relying on the 6mm tripod screw. I see this as folly. I am sure lots of birders end up with stripped threads resulting from tripods pulling out. Always Always carry your scope and tripod by a strap around the tripod itself and not just the scope!!

This can be a problem, I have seen a scope fall off its tripod and for my money I'd rather still have the scope over my shoulder than a tripod and a broken scope! As regards the thread, the thread on the scope is usually far more robust than that of the screw.
What I think it all boils down to is the questionable concept that we all need a quick release plate, perhaps if the tripod manufacturers knew just how many tripods are bought by people that simply do not need a quick release plate, then they might produce a model better suited to our needs.

Thanks for the input. I not sure I can explain it well or if I may be missing something. The way the Bogen/Manfrotto tech described it is that whenever a tripod w/scope is carried around - and particularly if the tripod is carried with the scope resting on the shoulder - the grip of the fastening screw itself is reduced and it will tend to gradually work its way loose and the scope can fall off - no matter what type of plate, quick release or not, unless the screw is periodically checked for tightness.

Bogen manufactures custom mounting plates for the most popular scopes which are designed to prevent the screw loosening by precisely matching and interlocking itself with the scopes base mount.

The only custom mounting plate for the Zeiss spotting scopes is designed for heads accepting the 3157N plate system and the only one of the above heads to use this plate system is the 3130 (128RC). This custom plate is listed in the Bogen/Manfrotto catalog as the "RAPID CONNECT MOUNTING PLATE FOR ZEISS SPOTTING SCOPES / Cat. No: 200CZ1 Specifically machined to fit the Carl Zeiss Diascope, and for heads accepting the 3157N plate system "

I thought the 3130 was the US-model number of the 128RC head; also, IIRC the 200CZ1 is dovetailed to fit the Zeiss mounting foot not to prevent the screw coming loose, but to prevent the scope from rotating on the tripod when the screw loosens.

Regards,

GR

I see no problem with periodically checking screws. It seems to me that this would be routine almost regardless of the gear.

As it is, I have some very non-mainstream catadioptric scopes and I use the generic Manfrotto quick releas plate on all of them. It becomes apparent very quickly if the screw has loosened even a little bit. I'd consider using locktite, but I find it extremely easy to simply do a quick check of tightness before mounting the scopes.

If you are really concerned, you could always fasten a safety strap between the scope and the tripod. I do this with my cameras that are mounted while digiscoping.

B Manfrotto make the 128LP head. Its exactly the same as the 128RC, but without the quick release system. It uses the same really smooth fluid movement - maybe a solution.
marco

rogerk said:

I see so many birders carrying around scopes with a strap on the scope itself. The whole weight of the tripod and head is relying on the 6mm tripod screw. I see this as folly. I am sure lots of birders end up with stripped threads resulting from tripods pulling out. Always Always carry your scope and tripod by a strap around the tripod itself and not just the scope!!

This can be a problem, I have seen a scope fall off its tripod and for my money I'd rather still have the scope over my shoulder than a tripod and a broken scope! As regards the thread, the thread on the scope is usually far more robust than that of the screw.
What I think it all boils down to is the questionable concept that we all need a quick release plate, perhaps if the tripod manufacturers knew just how many tripods are bought by people that simply do not need a quick release plate, then they might produce a model better suited to our needs.

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The Bogen/Manfrotto technical support person claimed that the 200CZ1 Zeiss plate would also prevent the fastening screw from loosening as it would on a standard plate.

On my old tripod (which is the only one I've used in the last 25 years) there is no QR plate and it uses a thumb screw fastener that frequently loosens up and which I always check before using the scope. If its really loose its also usually readily noticeable. I'm more concerned now because this new scope is really expensive and I have no familiarity w/the Bogen/Manfrotto fastening systems or w/different plates and because I intend to hike more with this scope and I'm concerned the fastening screw might loosen up w/o my noticing while hiking.

I'm unfamiliar w/a safety strap system. I tried to locate one at a few major photography web sites but could not find a listing. Where did you get yours -or did you make it? If bought is there a specific model or type that you would recommend that would work well w/a scope as well as a camera? Thanks.

I have never used any QR-plate and never had any problems with scopes coming loose. It is really easy to tighten the screw hard enough by making the last 1/4 turn by twisting the scope and holding the screw in stead of the opposite (which is more intuitively done). Now I use the Manfrotto 128LP which, thanks to the absence of a QR plate, also gives the possibility to position the scope so thet it perfectly balances on the head since there is a 4-5 cm long slit for the screw.

Cheers, Jens.

PS. A safetystrap is esily made from two large plastic 'cable strips'. They are so cheap so that you can use them to secure the scope on the head and then just cut them when you want to take it off.

JimG said:

I recently bought a Zeiss 85 T FL 20-60 green/angled scope. I'm love the scope but want to upgrade my tripod. I will probably get a Bogen/Manfrotto 055 series legs (3221WN or 3021BN) but I'm trying to decide whether to go with the 700RC2, 3130QR (128RC), or 501 (3433) head.

I lean toward the 700RC to save weight and toward the 501 to maximize performance. The 3130 (a compromise in weight between the two) however is the only one of the three that can be used with the 200CZ1 Zeiss plate. Bogen's tech support claims that eventually the screw holding the scope will work its way loose w/o this plate and the scope will fall off (not a good thing). I would appreciate any information on what others here use, what they think of the 200CZ1 Zeiss plate, and if they don't use it have they had problems with the scope screw working its way loose? Thanks much. Jim

Click to expand...

I ahve that scope and the 055/700RC2 - superb combination, for digiscoping, too. Go for it!

JimG said:

I recently bought a Zeiss 85 T FL 20-60 green/angled scope. I'm love the scope but want to upgrade my tripod. I will probably get a Bogen/Manfrotto 055 series legs (3221WN or 3021BN) but I'm trying to decide whether to go with the 700RC2, 3130QR (128RC), or 501 (3433) head.

I lean toward the 700RC to save weight and toward the 501 to maximize performance. The 3130 (a compromise in weight between the two) however is the only one of the three that can be used with the 200CZ1 Zeiss plate. Bogen's tech support claims that eventually the screw holding the scope will work its way loose w/o this plate and the scope will fall off (not a good thing). I would appreciate any information on what others here use, what they think of the 200CZ1 Zeiss plate, and if they don't use it have they had problems with the scope screw working its way loose? Thanks much. Jim

Click to expand...

I have the Zeiss 85T*FL + zoom & 30xW and the 055/700RC2 - superb combination, for digiscoping, too. Go for it!

JimG said:

I'm unfamiliar w/a safety strap system. I tried to locate one at a few major photography web sites but could not find a listing. Where did you get yours -or did you make it? If bought is there a specific model or type that you would recommend that would work well w/a scope as well as a camera? Thanks.

Click to expand...

I don't use a safety strap on my scope. I use it on my camera. I used to simply loop the camera strap around the tripod head and tie a knot to shorten it. I've recently replaced it with a lanyard that clips to an accessory ring on the main casting of the tripod. I would expect that some kind of similar scheme could be rigged for any scope. You just need an attachment point of some sort that is suitably strong.

Perhaps one reason I am relatively unconcerned about losing the scope is due to the way I carry the scope and tripod. I do not carry it over my shoulder, but carry it under my arm instead. I use an old circa 1980s wide camera strap that is attached to the tripod and sling it under my arm. I usually keep a light grip on the tripod head handle for balance and to shift the load around as I hike. If anything is coming loose (which seldom happens), its right there in front of me to spot.

http://www.jayandwanda.com/digiscope/carrystrap.jpg

The shiny spot on the one leg is where the tripod gently rubs against my side while I carry it. My super custom deluxe camo paint job isn't quite tough enough to deal with the constant rubbing.