Someone who knows bird anatomy, please help? (1 Viewer)

Disclaimer: This question is strange and may frustrate even experts. I apologize in advance.


I am writing a book about angels actually, but my lack of knowledge of wings and whatever necessary anatomy allowing birds to fly is getting in the way.

What I do know:

• 
  The names of the feathers on a wing (primaries and secondaries)
  There is a large chest muscle that pulls the wing down, but a smaller one to bring it up
  Pretty Sure tail-feathers are needed for typical birds to fly

And seriously, thats all. If I'm wrong on either of these, please please PLEASE correct me.

So anyway, here is my question and where things are odd and may get frustrating:

Lets say we try to put the wings of an enormous eagle onto the back of about a 125 pound man. Using the necessary anatomy for the wings to work properly, would that make the wingspan twice as long as the man himself or much bigger? Also, wouldn't his chest look like it had double-pectorals or something due the size of the muscle responsible for pulling those powerful wings downards?

Is there anything I'm missing here other than tail-feathers? Or is it possible that if the wings are enormous, tail feathers won't be needed (like hang-gliders?)

I'm sorry if you discover later that your IQ has dropped just from reading such a ridiculous question! lol But thats all for right now. ANY feedback would be GREATLY appreciated.

As far as I know, birds have many adaptations aimed at making flight possible (so not counting ostrich etc). One is hollow, light-weight bones. A second is a strange anatomy of the lung that allows for improved oxygen transfer. Then there is the protruding edge on the sternum that you see when you take the meat off a chicken, which is attachment point for the muscles that pull down on the wings as you say.

And probably a lot more that I cannot remember. But for your eagle wings to bring your man up into flight, he would have to weigh a lot less, or you would have to think of an eagle time 10 in size; look at the size of the wings on a hang glider.

Niels

Physical being of human weight propelled by bird-like wings would need to have completely different proportions eg. huge breast muscles, which would probably get into way of arm musculature.

Plus think of all side-effects, eg. air moved by wingstrokes affecting angel's immaculate robe.

No wonder that angels are immaterial and therefore need no muscles to move!

Angels as depicted in religious iconography (e.g., on Xmas cards) couldn’t possibly fly, lacking the muscular development to even flap their wings, must less lift a flesh-&-blood body off the ground. Fortunately, as Jurek points out, angles are spiritual beings so don’t need muscles to fly.

Thank you! Thats what I thought too, but making a story on one is what I'm doing and I wanted to make sure I had the flight mechanics right even if they are immaterial beings. Thank you sooo much for this information! I didn't think I could get it anywhere else. I had no idea about the lungs allowing improved oxygen transfer, so that was interesting.

There was something else that popped into my head just now. One of my friends told me she was hit in the face by a goose wing and it gave her a bloody nose. I know the muscles on wings are strong but are they actually strong enough to hurt you? The muscle pulling the wing downwards is bigger and I'm assuming stronger, so I can see that happen if it dove at her first, but she said it flew up from the ground and got her. How accurate would you say this is?

I would have thought very accurate.

People have had bones broken when attacked by Mute Swans. The damage being done by the wings.

Actually, tail feathers are not a must. Most (all?) birds can fly without them, less control but that's about it.

Hi tmcf,
Your question has been asked before. When the late Paul McCready, aerodynamicist extraordinaire, had the same thought, he looked at a turkey vulture weight/wing area and extrapolated to human dimensions. The result was the hang glider, that has the needed scale of wing for a 150+ pound human. So think about a 40 foot wing span approximately.
Angels are absurd from an anatomy perspective. Their wings have no base and no attachment muscles, so the angel could not even hold them up when standing.. However, in a zero gravity environment, they might allow for gliding, although sprained wings would be common.

winkle said:

I would have thought very accurate.

People have had bones broken when attacked by Mute Swans. The damage being done by the wings.

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Has there ever been a properly documented case of that actually happening - as opposed to 'my Grandmother knew a man whose neighbour had his leg broken' or whatever?

David FG said:

Has there ever been a properly documented case of that actually happening - as opposed to 'my Grandmother knew a man whose neighbour had his leg broken' or whatever?

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I've captured a good number of mute swans to save them from themselves when they've landed in a field of long grass and been unable to take off again, or on the most recent occasion when I collected one that was wandering about on a main road causing all sorts of traffic disruption. I can't say I've ever felt in danger of any broken limbs, but I would imagine getting a bloody nose could be possible in people susceptible to bloody noses.