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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

I wanted to love the EL 8x32 SV (1 Viewer)

This is for Brock.

Not the best picture.

My love is not only for the el but, SLC!

Bryce...

Bryce,

After I thought about it a bit more, and knowing what a generous person you are, I suspected that "bashed" might have been just a poorly chosen word since the rest of your post was reasonable. But there have been other members who have jumped on first time posters for saying something negative about a bin, because they suspected that they had a hidden agenda. For sure, there are certain members who pump up or put down bins who have ulterior motives, but by and large, I've never found that to be true with first time posters. They are usually just wondering why a bin that others have touted as "the best" or as "highly recommended" turned out to be such a bad fit for them.

The reason is that binoculars are very personal instruments and require a lot of human interface. If the ergonomics, eyegonomics, eyecups, or focuser doesn't mesh well with your body, the bin is not going to work for you right off the bat, even before personal preferences in optical qualities are considered. When you add the optics, and all the different factors such as level of distortion, edge sharpness, apparent brightness, color bias, depth of field, depth of focus, etc., there are so many variables that can cause one to like or dislike any particular bin even if that bin is very popular with others.

Btw. I wasn't thinking of you when referring to diehard Swaro fanboys. We all know who they are!

Swarovski is my second favorite brand, but I have no blind loyalty to any brand. I calls him like I sees him. No one brand or one one bin is "the best" for everyone, but there are certain people who, for whatever reason, are hellbent on trying convince others that is the case with Swaros, and in particular, the SV ELs. I'm as mystified by this as much as Proud Papa, and he's a Swaro dealer!

There's also a bit of chauvinism on the part of some Zeiss fanboys, but by and large, I think that even though we all have our own preferences for brands and models, most BF members realize that what's best for the goose isn't always best for the gander.

The funny thing is, I always thought if any owner was going to be snobby, it would be a Leica owner, but except for that one guy, who posted years back that he chose a Leica UV over a Swaro EL, even though he thought the EL's optics were better, because "the red dot held more cache in the field," most Leica owners seem to be level headed. The irony is that today, I'm not sure that the "red dot" still holds more cachet in the field than the Peregrine falcon.

There is that diehard original Trinnie contingent, but they are less about their bin being better than other brands than them being better or at least a better bang for the buck than the UVs.

Leica is one of the few major brands of binoculars that I haven't tried. From all I've read about them, I probably would like them, maybe even more than Swaros, but given that I would need to buy used and pay out of pocket for potentially costly repairs, I've always shied away from them. I much prefer brands with No Fault warranties and/or transferable warranties for this reason. But at least now we have an explanation from a Leia rep on why the company doesn't offer such warranties.

Snobs will be snobs, regardless if its optics, cameras, cars... you name it. There are always people who buy things more for their prestige than for their practicality. I don't give a hoot that the 10x42 SLC-HD is "Made in Austria" or that it retails for $1,700 while the Nikon 8x30 M7 is "Made in China" and costs only $300. I like both bins. I'm much more likely to buy the M7 than the Swaro because it better fits my budget, but I admit that the SLC is the better of the two, and heck, for the price, it should be!

I think that any worthwhile discussion of sports optics should be free from chauvinism and those who have an agenda in pumping up or putting down a brand or a certain model. It ruins it for the rest of us who have genuine reasons for liking or disliking a brand or particular bins or certain features of those bins. It's also misleading to new members who join the forums for advice on which bins to consider purchasing.

End of long-winded righteous indignation rant. ;)

Brock
 
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I think that any worthwhile discussion of sports optics should be free from chauvinism and those who have an agenda in pumping up or putting down a brand or a certain model.

Am saddened and disconcerted by your use of "chauvinism" to mean (something like) "excessive brand locality". What a comedown for this formerly noble and consequential word!
;)
 
Am saddened and disconcerted by your use of "chauvinism" to mean (something like) "excessive brand locality". What a comedown for this formerly noble and consequential word!
;)

And agendas can be in the eye of the beholder :smoke:

Also with sadness, Lee
 
Fugl, am surprised by your last sentc. Had to look up in a good dictionary and the internet the meaning and etymology not only of "chauvinism" but also "consequential"!

If we are to see about "formerly" why not all the way back? From Wikipedia, with the sqr. brackets and their content also from that extract:

Nicolas Chauvin is a legendary, possibly apocryphal French soldier and patriot ... His name is the eponym of chauvinism, originally a term for excessive nationalistic fervor, but later used to refer to any form of bigotry or bias ...

... When the Old Guard ... made its last stand ... he supposedly shouted in defiance to a call for their ... surrender ... "The Old Guard dies but does not surrender!", implying blind and unquestioned zealous devotion to one's country [or other group of reference].

The ... phrase was, in fact, attributed to the Old Guard's commander, Pierre Cambronne ... whose actual reply was ... asserted by other sources to be "Merde!" (in English, literally "Shit!").

One of Bf's more outspoken posters occasionally refers to bins he dislikes as "POS". The forum carries forward one of the oldest traditions of chauvinism!
 
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... His name is the eponym of chauvinism, originally a term for excessive nationalistic fervor, but later used to refer to any form of bigotry or bias ...

And what good has nationalism caused, except putting millions of people in lavender. Its not even a pessonal achievement, so not worth being proud of either.
 
Hi Bryce, Nice pictures. I noticed a set of headphones, is that tied into being able to hear better? I was just wondering, at work we had a devise something like that, but it was for listening for air leaks etc. It worked great for me. I have a hearing loss and ringing in the ears. I have a hard time hearing my wife.;)

Actually, I have I bird loaded on an android with amplifier.

That set up is more than what people pay for binoculars. :eek!:

It goes back to my HiFi days.

Yes I'm hard of hearing with the misses! ;)

Bryce...
 
Fugl, am surprised by your last sentc. Had to look up in a good dictionary and the internet the meaning and etymology not only of "chauvinism" but also "consequential"!

If we are to see about "formerly" why not all the way back? From Wikipedia, with the sqr. brackets and their content also from that extract:

Nicolas Chauvin is a legendary, possibly apocryphal French soldier and patriot ... His name is the eponym of chauvinism, originally a term for excessive nationalistic fervor, but later used to refer to any form of bigotry or bias ...

... When the Old Guard ... made its last stand ... he supposedly shouted in defiance to a call for their ... surrender ... "The Old Guard dies but does not surrender!", implying blind and unquestioned zealous devotion to one's country [or other group of reference].

The ... phrase was, in fact, attributed to the Old Guard's commander, Pierre Cambronne ... whose actual reply was ... asserted by other sources to be "Merde!" (in English, literally "Shit!").

One of Bf's more outspoken posters occasionally refers to bins he dislikes as "POS". The forum carries forward one of the oldest traditions of chauvinism!

Don't feel bad, I had to lookup POS. ;)

In general, it's important to keep in mind that words and what they describe are very different things and that etymology & current usage often bear little or no relationship to one another.
 
Don't feel bad, I had to lookup POS. ;)

In general, it's important to keep in mind that words and what they describe are very different things and that etymology & current usage often bear little or no relationship to one another.

From the Oxford Advanced American Dictionary definition of chauvinism:

An aggressive and unreasonable belief that your own country is better than all others
'It was a typical case of American chauvinism and insularity.'

Their example not mine! ;)

David
 
Fugl, am surprised by your last sentc. Had to look up in a good dictionary and the internet the meaning and etymology not only of "chauvinism" but also "consequential"!

If we are to see about "formerly" why not all the way back? From Wikipedia, with the sqr. brackets and their content also from that extract:

Nicolas Chauvin is a legendary, possibly apocryphal French soldier and patriot ... His name is the eponym of chauvinism, originally a term for excessive nationalistic fervor, but later used to refer to any form of bigotry or bias ...

... When the Old Guard ... made its last stand ... he supposedly shouted in defiance to a call for their ... surrender ... "The Old Guard dies but does not surrender!", implying blind and unquestioned zealous devotion to one's country [or other group of reference].

The ... phrase was, in fact, attributed to the Old Guard's commander, Pierre Cambronne ... whose actual reply was ... asserted by other sources to be "Merde!" (in English, literally "Shit!").

One of Bf's more outspoken posters occasionally refers to bins he dislikes as "POS". The forum carries forward one of the oldest traditions of chauvinism!


"The history of ideas (indeed of all human thought) is inseparable from the history of words." From the essay "Misuse and misreading of "Fascism." p117 Democracy and Populism -- Fear and Hatred, John Lukacs, Historian. 2005.

Bob
 
Fugl, actually, still wondering what that "noble and conseql." meaning of the word is, and, also, "words and what they describe are very different things" may be worth explaining a bit more (at your convenience) - although this forum *is* a place for strange sayings!
 
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Fugl, actually, still wondering what that "noble and conseql." meaning of the word is, and, also, "words and what they describe are very different things" may be worth explaining a bit more (at your convenience) - although this forum *is* a place for strange sayings!

I didn't mean anything very profound, I'm afraid, but was just poking fun at brocknroller for applying a serious word like "chauvinism", describing a phenomenon which has caused all kinds of grief in the world and still does, to something as utterly inconsequential as preference for one brand of binoculars over another. Aware as I am of how passionately some people feel about such trivia, I should have known better of course. But then I did throw in a smiley. . ..

And here, by way of keeping the mood light, are some more: o:) ;) o:).
 
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From the Oxford Advanced American Dictionary definition of chauvinism:

An aggressive and unreasonable belief that your own country is better than all others
'It was a typical case of American chauvinism and insularity.'

Their example not mine! ;)

David

Ah yes... a way of thinking the Brit's perfected for manifold centuries, and we've only been working at of late... ;)
 
Fugl, sorry, thought you were dead serious, and the smiley just a pat on the back when parting ... ;) BTW, only a moderator, one of those feared beings who must be appeased, can get away with calling the preference for a bin "inconsequential", let alone "utterly" - if one of us mortals did that there'll be h* to pay ...:storm:
 
As has been said before the 8x32 format is generally a compromise. I've owned and extensively used the 8.5x42 original and SV, the 8x32 original and SV and the 10x42 SV. I now actually keep (at the moment0 the 8x32 SV and the 10x42 SV due to the separation of functions. The 8x32 SV is a vast improvement over the original EL in color fringing. My preference of rolling ball versus not would be not - but the improvement in color far surpasses that sentiment. RB doesn't bother me, fortunately.

Ultimately I would at one time question the OP on the original 8x32 being so prone to CA but in light of the segment who does not have a problem with that I just say - lucky them. One thing I'd say about all the ELs, slow focus, not slow focus, SV or not - they're all pretty darn good!
 
What about "male chauvinist pigs" then? Are they wild boars that display excessive nationalistic fervour? (And is ´boars´ the plural of ´boar´?);)

Loved the SV 8x32 for a year and a half. As I moaned at length about elsewhere
(for which, apologies for repetition), I did discover weird full-FOV veiling glare in very rare lighting situations, making it hard to see the tree, never mind the bird. In all other situations they were truly sublime. No such thing as a "perfect" bino.
 
What about "male chauvinist pigs" then? Are they wild boars that display excessive nationalistic fervour? (And is ´boars´ the plural of ´boar´?);)

Yes, "male chauvinist pig", that's where the rot started. I was wondering when someone would bring that up. Not a can of worms I wanted to open myself just in case– not likely admittedly but it could happen – someone of the female persuasion might visit the thread sometime. ;)
 
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Yes, "male chauvinist pig", that's where the rot started. I was wondering when someone would bring that up. Not a can of worms I wanted to open myself just in case– not likely admittedly but it could happen – someone of the female persuasion might visit the thread sometime. ;)

Well FUGL don't forget our very own Annabeth who has been known to brighten these pages from time to time :king:

And of course the Chosun Juan may re-appear amongst us any moment, so best be careful ;)

Lee
 
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