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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Late to the Party (1 Viewer)

Kevin Conville

yardbirder
Late to the Party, 7x36 ED2 impressions

I'm one of the few (seemingly) that frequent this forum who have not already used the Zen Ray 7x36 ED2s. That changed today.

My brother dropped off his pair of these for the day to let me check them out. I currently don't own a late version pair of high-end (hate the word "alpha" as it applies to binoculars) bins to compare the Zens to, having recently sold my Ultravids, so my trusty 8x32 Trinovids had to suck it up and try and hold down the fort. Here are a few non scientific observations...

They're big. Really big. So much for choosing a 36mm bin to keep the size down. They are every bit as big as most 42mm bins, with maybe Zen being the exception. Unfortunately they felt even bigger and certainly more cumbersome because my brother has everything including the kitchen sink hanging off of them. Neoprene strap, rain guard attached to the strap, objective covers attached and their rubber bands cemented so they won't come off. I hate all that stuff and never use it.

The view: it's good. I was expecting my socks to want to leave my feet, but they didn't. The thing is, they don't really snap to focus like I'm used to. You sort of have to creep up on it, then they're fine. They are no sharper than the Trinovids certainly. To compound the slow focus, they have too little stiction (for my taste) in the focus wheel. It requires a different technique from other bins in that I have to move focus then release my finger(s) from the wheel as it moves way too easily. This is most likely just something one gets used to, but initially I don't like it.

Chroma: Still there. Certainly reduced as compared to the Trinovid (big surprise), but it remains. Power lines and black birds against blue sky is my point of reference.

FOV: This surprised me. Zen's quite proud of this to the point they print the claimed (477') FOV on the badge in front of the focus ring. My 8x32 Trinovids have a demonstrably wider view, though Leica claims something like 404'. This was concluded by observing a power pole in the distance and placing the pole at the edge of the field stop then looking at opposite edge, then comparing. I did this repeatedly, I'm not hallucinating. The Leica was clearly wider, with more mag.

Contrast and saturation: Some here have written about the Zens and these qualities. To my eyes, the Zens and my Trins are nearly indistinguishable. That's high marks for the Zens, but they're the ones with the "ED" glass and the long focal length.

Mechanical: In addition to the too easily moved focus wheel, the eyecups don't stay put. Yeah I know...O-rings. I'm a little surprised that loose twist-up eyecups is still part of the discussion in 2010 however.

Overall, a good bin and worth the money. It's not my cup of tea, but I'm often out of step with many around here. For my $400. I'd rather have an "obsolete" Nikon EII ;)
 

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I always wondered if the baffle fix applied to fix the glare issue on this bin did not somehow further restrict the clear aperture/field stop. FWIW, while I did not even try to evaluate its optics, I was similarly underwhelmed by the ZR flagship 8x42EDII ergonomics when I tried them at Cameraland NY las month.
 
sweet spot/ edge sharpness?

The Zen has a relatively larger sweet spot. The Trinovid has a slightly wider view. Overall, probably similar.

I didn't mention this above as it means little to me. I like a wide field to acquire my subjects, and to see what may be coming or going, but look at things down the middle.

I'd also like to mention that my observations were all done hand held, as when out birding. Tripod mounting under controlled and diverse conditions may divulge something I missed, but.... I don't care.

I've said before that (to my thinking) hand holding is the greatest variable when comparing any field bin and as long as one uses them with their hands holding them to their face, the (perceived optical) differences among the best bins will be tiny.

We've learned on these forums previously that many don't even utilize an optimum grip. It's like throwing money away, IMO.
 
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I'm one of the few (seemingly) that frequent this forum who have not already used the Zen Ray 7x36 ED2s. That changed today.

My brother dropped off his pair of these for the day to let me check them out. I currently don't own a late version pair of high-end (hate the word "alpha" as it applies to binoculars) bins to compare the Zens to, having recently sold my Ultravids, so my trusty 8x32 Trinovids had to suck it up and try and hold down the fort. Here are a few non scientific observations...

They're big. Really big. So much for choosing a 36mm bin to keep the size down. They are every bit as big as most 42mm bins, with maybe Zen being the exception. Unfortunately they felt even bigger and certainly more cumbersome because my brother has everything including the kitchen sink hanging off of them. Neoprene strap, rain guard attached to the strap, objective covers attached and their rubber bands cemented so they won't come off. I hate all that stuff and never use it.

The view: it's good. I was expecting my socks to want to leave my feet, but they didn't. The thing is, they don't really snap to focus like I'm used to. You sort of have to creep up on it, then they're fine. They are no sharper than the Trinovids certainly. To compound the slow focus, they have too little stiction (for my taste) in the focus wheel. It requires a different technique from other bins in that I have to move focus then release my finger(s) from the wheel as it moves way too easily. This is most likely just something one gets used to, but initially I don't like it.

Chroma: Still there. Certainly reduced as compared to the Trinovid (big surprise), but it remains. Power lines and black birds against blue sky is my point of reference.

FOV: This surprised me. Zen's quite proud of this to the point they print the claimed (477') FOV on the badge in front of the focus ring. My 8x32 Trinovids have a demonstrably wider view, though Leica claims something like 404'. This was concluded by observing a power pole in the distance and placing the pole at the edge of the field stop then looking at opposite edge, then comparing. I did this repeatedly, I'm not hallucinating. The Leica was clearly wider, with more mag.

Contrast and saturation: Some here have written about the Zens and these qualities. To my eyes, the Zens and my Trins are nearly indistinguishable. That's high marks for the Zens, but they're the ones with the "ED" glass and the long focal length.

Mechanical: In addition to the too easily moved focus wheel, the eyecups don't stay put. Yeah I know...O-rings. I'm a little surprised that loose twist-up eyecups is still part of the discussion in 2010 however.

Overall, a good bin and worth the money. It's not my cup of tea, but I'm often out of step with many around here. For my $400. I'd rather have an "obsolete" Nikon EII ;)

I second that on the Nikon EII. I found your review right on on the Zen Rays and also it had me cracking up with your humor. Especially about how he has every accessory including the kitchen sink hanging on them. The Zen Rays are a big binocular which is one thing I do not like about them. I feel the same about there FOV also. It certainly doesn't seem like 477' to me either. I don't like the feel of the focus either. These are the kind of reviews I like! Funny!
 
Kevin,
I'm happy you got to make this very relevant comparison between old and new. Thanks for the report.

Would you comment on brightness and clarity? The dielectric prism coatings, if well done, ought to make a noticeable improvement over the silvered Trinovid's, everything else being equal (ha!).

But you are using binoculars all wrong man. You are behind the curve, not up with the Swarovision craze. The new way to observe is to position the object of interest at the edge of the field, and position and roll the eyes as necessary to get the view.
Ron
 
Kevin, thanks a lot for the feedback with your honest opinion. It's very much appreciated. The FOV is measured for each barrel individually using instrument. Ron (Surveyor) did some independent measurement last year. The data are in the attachments.

http://birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1560188&postcount=14

I totally agree with you on

=Kevin Conville said:
I've said before that (to my thinking) hand holding is the greatest variable when comparing any field bin and as long as one uses them with their hands holding them to their face, the (perceived optical) differences among the best bins will be tiny.

You articulated it so well that I would not try to "re-fry" the same point. :)

I don't like the feel of the focus either. These are the kind of reviews I like! Funny!

Dennis, I believe Kevin refers that the focus wheel needs be tighter. Your original feedback was the focus wheel was little too tight. That's why we went back to redesign the focus wheel gear mechanism. :) I think you will like it when you have a chance to see the new pair. Similarly, someone wrote to us, suggesting us make 7x36 even longer for him. ;) That's why there is no single universal binoculars that will work for everyone. And, there is really no right or wrong answer to this request. We are all different.

Kevin Conville said:
too easily moved focus wheel

Best Regards

Charles
 
Hmmmm. I guess I should try to find someone in the area who's sprung for the RenZays and give them a spin around the block (so to speak). They seem to be generating nearly as much ink as the SE/EII and the SV's, and I don't wanna miss out on it (even tho' the chances of my buying one are like....what?...maybe Osama strolling into the Manhattan South Precinct station and turning himself in....). I been on the no-more-bino-purchase wagon for about 13mo and I doan wanna fall off...again. (Almost did last week, but got hold of the sideboard just in time and crawled back to the middle and lashed myself to the floor.....it was close).
 
Would you comment on brightness and clarity? The dielectric prism coatings, if well done, ought to make a noticeable improvement over the silvered Trinovid's, everything else being equal (ha!).

But you are using binoculars all wrong man. You are behind the curve, not up with the Swarovision craze. The new way to observe is to position the object of interest at the edge of the field, and position and roll the eyes as necessary to get the view.
Ron

I have no doubt that the Zens have better light transmission, but I didn't really see it. Keep in mind I was using them from mid morning to mid afternoon where any differences would be least likely noticed. Interestingly though, my 7x42 Ultravids always seem brighter no matter what time of day. They delivered a "whiter" (lower kelvin?) color.

To your latter point, yeah I'm out of that loop. I never did get and still don't get this desire for such a flat visual field for terrestrial use. I do understand why when looking at stars one wants them to all to look like pin points and not smeared towards the edge of view. Night sky bins are often tripod mounted and this type of viewing is mostly static. This gives the viewer the luxury of "looking around".
 
Kevin, thanks a lot for the feedback with your honest opinion.

Dennis, I believe Kevin refers that the focus wheel needs be tighter.

No problem Charles. Glad you found it fair.

Yes, I found the focus wheel too free. Damned if you do, damned if you don't I suppose. I can imagine the difficulties of trying to be most things to most people. The action of the focus wheel is very smooth.
 
Kevin, thanks a lot for the feedback with your honest opinion. It's very much appreciated. The FOV is measured for each barrel individually using instrument. Ron (Surveyor) did some independent measurement last year. The data are in the attachments.

http://birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1560188&postcount=14

I totally agree with you on



You articulated it so well that I would not try to "re-fry" the same point. :)



Dennis, I believe Kevin refers that the focus wheel needs be tighter. Your original feedback was the focus wheel was little too tight. That's why we went back to redesign the focus wheel gear mechanism. :) I think you will like it when you have a chance to see the new pair. Similarly, someone wrote to us, suggesting us make 7x36 even longer for him. ;) That's why there is no single universal binoculars that will work for everyone. And, there is really no right or wrong answer to this request. We are all different.



Best Regards

Charles

When I first got the 8x42 ED Zen Ray's I was impressed with the optics for a roof prism. I was less impressed with 7x36 ED II's. Even though the FOV claims to be huge it doesn't seem like it. The eyecups were loose and poor fitting with way too much slop. Also, the stray light issue on the 7x36 ED's really bugged me after awhile. After I used both for awhile I realized I didn't care for the too TIGHT focus. In the Colorado winters the focus got really tight. It was a deal breaker for me. The lens covers didn't fit and the strap was awful in reality. Using them in the field I decided they were to big for me also. I don't care if a later model corrected these deficiencies I am not going to constantly trade my binoculars every six months for the latest model. I feel the Nikon EII's are WAY superior to the Zen Rays for the same amount of money. Better optics, better FOV, better smoother focus and higher quality construction. Of course they are a non-waterproof porro. For my roof-prism I am happy with my Zeiss 8x32 FL. More money but as I found you get what you pay for. My Zen-Rays are all gone and I doubt if I would ever try them again. They just didn't work for me in the field.
 
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I got the first batch of 7x36 ZEN. I never noticed much glare (it does not have glare fix, I believe). I am always curious how much better the latest version will be? If I don't see the glare from the previous verison, am I still able to see the improvement from some secondart effect?
 
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