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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Polycarbonate or Magnesium? (2 Viewers)

It really doesn't make much of a difference to me. My Polycarb bodied Zeiss Victory 7x42 is actually a little heavier than my Magnesium bodied Leica 8x42 Ultravid Blackline.

Bob
 
bokaba said:
Any preferences for either polycarbonate or magnesium binos?
Click to expand...
I prefer magnesium. It feels more quality, has more structural rigidity, is stronger for equivalent densities, absorbs energy better, can withstand higher temperatures(like if you leave your binoculars in the car) and is not prone to thermal expansion like plastics. Thermal expansion in a plastic binocular could actually throw your focus off because a binocular is actually a tube if you think about it. Plastic is less expensive in general and is used in lower end cameras ,whereas, higher end cameras use a magnesium body. If you drop plastic it could shatter while magnesium might just dent. Magnesium can be made thinner walled to the same strength as plastic also. I would take magnesium over plastic any day in a camera or binocular.
 
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[email protected] said:
I prefer magnesium. It feels more quality, has more structural rigidity, is stronger for equivalent densities, absorbs energy better, can withstand higher temperatures(like if you leave your binoculars in the car) and is not prone to thermal expansion like plastics. Thermal expansion in a plastic binocular could actually throw your focus off because a binocular is actually a tube if you think about it. Plastic is less expensive in general and is used in lower end cameras ,whereas, higher end cameras use a magnesium body. If you drop plastic it could shatter while magnesium might just dent. Magnesium can be made thinner walled to the same strength as plastic also.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can actually feel anything of that by just touching and using the binocular. It's all psychology and believe.

I'm sure, Zeiss only changed back from reinforced plastic of the FL (or whatever it was) to metal in their HT because of marketing reasons, because people believe all the stuff you just listed.

There are a number of binoculars out there with non-metal housing, and you never hear any reports of problems related to that material. Good binoculars can be made from both materials.
 
Chosun Juan said:
I'll have CFRP thanks! :t: (Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic)

Lighter and stronger than magnesium (o)<


Chosun :gh:
Click to expand...
I think it would be difficult to make a complete binocular out of carbon fiber. Even carbon fiber tripods have the hinges and small parts machined out of magnesium. I haven't seen one yet.
 
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dalat said:
I don't think you can actually feel anything of that by just touching and using the binocular. It's all psychology and believe.

I'm sure, Zeiss only changed back from reinforced plastic of the FL (or whatever it was) to metal in their HT because of marketing reasons, because people believe all the stuff you just listed.

There are a number of binoculars out there with non-metal housing, and you never hear any reports of problems related to that material. Good binoculars can be made from both materials.
Click to expand...
I can feel and see the difference between the difference between plastic and magnesium quite easily. I had many Zeiss FL's. I could easily tell they were made out of polycarbonate. You can tell the minute you put your hands around them. The thermal properties of plastic are different than magnesium. One advantage of plastic is it is warmer in cold weather.
 
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I also owned FLs, I know how they feel. There is rubber around the housing, this is what you feel. My Ultravid does not feel anything different in the cold. I bet, if you would not know what the material is, you would not be able to feel it either...
 
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[email protected] said:
I prefer magnesium. It feels more quality, has more structural rigidity, is stronger for equivalent densities, absorbs energy better, can withstand higher temperatures(like if you leave your binoculars in the car) and is not prone to thermal expansion like plastics. Thermal expansion in a plastic binocular could actually throw your focus off because a binocular is actually a tube if you think about it. Plastic is less expensive in general and is used in lower end cameras ,whereas, higher end cameras use a magnesium body. If you drop plastic it could shatter while magnesium might just dent. Magnesium can be made thinner walled to the same strength as plastic also. I would take magnesium over plastic any day in a camera or binocular.
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HI Den
This is interesting stuff, and I don't want to be argumentative, but polycarbonates have high impact resistance and are commonly used for headlamp lenses on cars because of it. This 'plastic' will not shatter when you drop it!!

And when it is glass fibre re-inforced (like FL) it has thermal expansion characteristics almost exactly the same as aluminium and similar to magnesium.

Instinctively many folks (including me) feel instinctively that magnesium is more up-market but actually that may well be because we don't fully understand GRP's capabilities. I think FLs have proven to be pretty reliable with regard to impact resistance and I am sure many other models from other brands have too.

Take a look at the current Terra thread and read how James's wife's Terra got swung hard against a rock so hard it had stuff embedded in the armour but was still fine optically.

Magnesium sounds sexy doesn't it? So much more 'technical' than common Aluminium and so much nicer than 'plastic'. But whether it is actually superior is something I am not convinced about.

And I really can't feel any difference between the feel of a GRP FL and a Magnesium HT.

Lee
 
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dalat said:
Steiner does...
Click to expand...

you forgot the last bit of the quote...

"...and seamless, high-strength alloy scope tubes"

http://www.steiner-optics.com/technology/optics-technology

But still a bit interesting, targeting the military industry,
I think price is the key, volume pricing, magnesium might be too expensive.
Makrolon bins does not seem that appealing to me though...

"scope tubes are shockproof to 900 Gs"

"is durable polycarbonate with NBR Long Life rubber armoring, creating a light-weight, rugged chassis that withstands 11 Gs of impact. "

not sure how to interpret this but if the tubes are Mag and the chassis are PC.
I guess Mag is tougher.
 
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dalat said:
I also owned FLs, I know how they feel. There is rubber around the housing, this is what you feel. My Ultravid does not feel anything different in the cold. I bet, if you would not know what the material is, you would not be able to feel it either...
Click to expand...

there is a specific flex in the FL, mag bins feel stiffer.
but it might be like the green tint in the SF,
you need a educated wife to detect it...
;)
 
[email protected] said:
I can feel and see the difference between the difference between plastic and magnesium quite easily. I had many Zeiss FL's. I could easily tell they were made out of polycarbonate. You can tell the minute you put your hands around them. The thermal properties of plastic are different than magnesium. One advantage of plastic is it is warmer in cold weather.
Click to expand...

Dennis,

My Zeiss 7x42 T* Victory FL is completely covered with rubber from the end of the objective tubes to the end of the eyepieces and everywhere in between and if I did not know its objective tubes were not made of metal I never would have known it otherwise. And it is not warmer to the touch than my Swarovski 7x42 SLC B is.

I just ran a casual test comparing my Zeiss 7x42 T* Victory FL to the Swarovski 7x42 SLC B to see there was a difference in how cool they felt when left in a cool environment.

I left them on the wide windowsill on the Cathedral Window in my home which overlooks a wooded area. It was a near freezing day today, cloudy and overcast with snow flurries and there is no heating unit near this window. I left them on the sill for over an hour.

When I came back, over an hour later, they both felt equally cool to the touch, and in my hands.

Bob
 
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Let me put it this way. Would you rather have a plastic car or a metal one? What is so different about binoculars? They are using magnesium more and more in automobiles because of it's advantages especially cars like the new Z06 Corvette. Not only is magnesium the best metal with the strength to weight ratio, but it is also 100 times better than plastic for heat dissipation. A lot of industries are switching from plastic to magnesium because of tit's superior dimensional stability. Dimensional stability is very important in binoculars where you need the lenses to remain in alignment obviously Here are four links describing the advantages of magnesium over plastic.

http://www.meridian-mag.com/magnesium-die-casting/magnesium-vs-plastic/

http://www.meridian-mag.com/magnesium-die-casting/magnesium-faq/

https://cdiichinadirect.wordpress.c...etal-of-the-future-for-a-reason-lillian-wong/

http://www.magnesium.com/w3/data-bank/article.php?mgw=173&magnesium=204


Magnesium Vs. Plastic:
Stronger
Superior stiffness
Greater energy absorbing capabilities
Higher temperature applications
Large thin-walled near net shape casting
 
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