New Subforum for telescopes/DSLR digiscoping. (1 Viewer)

Andy Bright · Jan 19, 2009

We will shortly be introducing a new subforum specifically aimed at photographers who use and experiment with astro type telescopes for their photography.
All threads pertaining to this form of 'digiscoping' will be moved into this new subforum.

Regards,
Andy

Paul Corfield · Jan 19, 2009

Rather than having it for a particular style of scope would it be better to have it as a forum for a style digiscoping where no eyepiece is being used which can include astro scopes and spotting scopes via specialized dslr adapters as neither use an eyepiece or a point and shoot camera.

Only reason I say this is that if you were using a point and shoot digicam or a dslr with a lens through an eyepiece and 45° erecting prism on an astro scope then it would be conventional digiscoping with a spotting scope style set up. The type of scope is irrelevant as long as you are doing conventional digiscoping. Information gained from that type of set up would be of more use to a conventional digiscoper than someone shooting prime focus etc.

It's the style of digiscoping that is different rather than the scope used.

Paul.

Andy Bright · Jan 19, 2009

Hi Paul,
We are, and always have been, a site dedicated to birders and birding, and this needs to be the thrust of the digiscoping section on birdforum.net. We have had substantial feedback indicating that the birder's needs are now being lost in the digiscoping section with a number of newcomers picking up inappropriate advice for their hobby and resulting disappointment.

Astro style scopes play next to no role in the birding scene, it doesn't mean that discussion on them and their use in photography is not welcome, but the intent is to have all discussion regarding them in one section with all other sections catering for use with conventional spotting scope.

Birders have to come first here.

Regards,
Andy

rmel66 · Jan 19, 2009

Grey area??

I have to partially agree with Paul. There are a few scopes that by design are strictly spotters (non-removable diagonal) but use or can use astro-type eyepieces (Lomo Astele 60, Celestron mini-maks, Pentax ed, and the new line of Celestron F-ed spotters). The essence of digiscoping is about afocal coupling of a camera to a scope, and should not be lost in scope types or brands.

On the other hand, techniques such as eyepiece projection and using optical tube assemblies as telephoto lens should be moved to the new section created.

I, by choice have eschewed 'conventional spotting scopes' in favor of those that allow a much wider eyepiece choice; I use a Lomo Astele 60 and diy spotter (pictured elsewhere in the Spotting Scopes sub-forum) for birdwatching and digiscoping.

Just my two cents worth.

Rmel66

Paul Hackett · Jan 19, 2009

Andy

Could i suggest that seeing as Paul has had a lot of input on this subject, that could he possibly setup within the "sticky" a laymans guide to the use and terms used? a few digiscopers have contacted me and said that they were interested in this subject, but got lost with some of the terminology and possibly some simple diagrams/photos showing the breakdown of setups that would also help, just a thought?

Paul

JGobeil · Jan 21, 2009

Andy Bright said:
...Astro style scopes play next to no role in the birding scene...

With all due respect Andy, this may be true today, but I think that Prime Focus Digiscoping is gathering more and more respect by birders who recognize its advantages. This technique has been used by a few for some time now and has been a bit like a well kept secret. However, thanks to Paul Corfield's work on this Forum, a small users group has formed and it increasing rapidly.

"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us."
Western Union internal memo.

"I think there's a world market for about five computers."
Thomas J. Watson, Chairman of the Board, IBM.

What if the use of astro scopes for digiscoping was like the telephone of 1876 or the computer of the 1940’s ?

Yes, there are critics and this is to be expected. When I started reading about digiscoping on BirdForum.net a few years ago, it was well accepted that DSLRs were a poor choice for digiscoping – it took some time but this has changed now. People resist change – this is normal and to be expected. Here is another quotation that I like a lot:

"When you're receiving flak, you're probably over the target."
George Hurley, NIKE Inc.

IMO, the use of astro scopes brings three important advantages to digiscoping that will make them more and more popular:

They are less expensive than good spotting scopes.
They are more efficient than spotting scopes for long range digiscoping.
They are well suited to DSLRs.

I don’t think that the birder's needs are being lost in the digiscoping section. On the contrary, I think that this experimental work is advancing the state of the art of digiscoping for the benefit of birders and I see this as an important role for BF. However, I welcome the idea of moving this discussion to its own subforum.

Best regards and thanks for your work in BirdForum
Jules

Paul Corfield · Jan 21, 2009

I took a few days to mull over what Andy wrote and initially I thought it a bit narrow minded. When you look at totally from a birders point of view then it makes perfect sense but it's a shame that birders have to be categorized as just one type of person.

I guess a typical birder/twitcher is someone who for the most part is happy just viewing the bird or ticking it off of a list and then they may move onto the next bird or chase a local rarity etc. They may foray into digiscoping just to get a record shot through their spotting scope and some take it a bit further by getting a decent point and shoot camera or dslr adapter and I suppose that's as far as the digiscoping forum wants to reach.

At the other end of the birding scale you have the photographers who may filter down into digiscoping as a way to get more reach and they are probably better targeted for astro scopes than your typical birder at the other end of the scale. I think until a manufacturer comes out with a lightweight ED astro scope that is waterproof then it wont get the interest that it deserves outside of a small group that can see its benefits. The fact that an ED astro scope or Mak design is superior visually, photographically and cost wise doesn't seem to be of any importance.

Paul.

Andy Bright · Jan 21, 2009

Hi,
As Paul Hackett has suggested, maybe Paul C could write a guide for the forthcoming new subforum, perhaps with a glossary to explain some of the terms that are unfamiliar to birders.

We could have this guide as a sticky in the new forum, with all the detail at hand in one thread.

cheers,
Andy

Paul Corfield · Jan 21, 2009

Yep, I'd be happy to work on a guide. Any ideas on the time frame for when the new sub forum will be introduced?

Paul.

rmel66 · Jan 21, 2009

Paul Corfield said:
I took a few days to mull over what Andy wrote and initially I thought it a bit narrow minded. When you look at totally from a birders point of view then it makes perfect sense but it's a shame that birders have to be categorized as just one type of person.

I guess a typical birder/twitcher is someone who for the most part is happy just viewing the bird or ticking it off of a list and then they may move onto the next bird or chase a local rarity etc. They may foray into digiscoping just to get a record shot through their spotting scope and some take it a bit further by getting a decent point and shoot camera or dslr adapter and I suppose that's as far as the digiscoping forum wants to reach.

At the other end of the birding scale you have the photographers who may filter down into digiscoping as a way to get more reach and they are probably better targeted for astro scopes than your typical birder at the other end of the scale. I think until a manufacturer comes out with a lightweight ED astro scope that is waterproof then it wont get the interest that it deserves outside of a small group that can see its benefits. The fact that an ED astro scope or Mak design is superior visually, photographically and cost wise doesn't seem to be of any importance.

Paul.

Paul,

Check the Celestron (Synta) website. They are introducing a new line of spotting scopes (Celestron F-ED) that allow for the use of astro eyepieces.
Should be interesting to see how they measure up to the current crop of dedicated spotters.

Rmel66.

JGobeil · Jan 21, 2009

I also had to take time to digest what Andy had written. Paul, I fully agree with you regarding the two types of digiscopers. We also have those two species here in Quebec.

BirdForum.net is the number one forum for birders on the Net with almost 80,000 members. Browsing through the forum topics makes it obvious that we are a well diversified community of interests centered on birds. I think that digiscoping for quality bird photographs has got as much value as any of the topics discussed here.

Having a separate subtopic will allow the casual digiscopers to stay away and not to be bothered with our experiments and different concerns. Of course, those that will show interest would be most welcomed.

Andy Bright · Jan 21, 2009

Paul Corfield said:
Yep, I'd be happy to work on a guide. Any ideas on the time frame for when the new sub forum will be introduced?

Paul.

Excellent, Paul, that would be great. If you wish, you could do it as a pdf attachment if a normal post type is restrictive.
We were intending to create the subforum in a week or two but your 'guide' can be added to it at any time and then made a 'sticky'.
Best regards,
Andy

Freegab · Jan 29, 2009

Well, astro type or Spotting scope

Hi guys,
I was very happy to find this forum.

Please understand I got no experience at all with digiscoping: I'm shopping, trying to find out the best solution for my needs.

Well I want to start digiscoping: I start searching information on digiscoping one month ago.
I was enthusiast for astro type, but vendor did'nt recommend it for terrestrial photography. But vendor is a vendor.....

Without any other reference, I stopped my choice on the Pentax PF-100ED for digiscoping: eyepiece projections seem to give great result (for me).

Reading thread commented by Jule Gobeil and Paul Corfield, I'm starting to return my choice on astro type since it's less expensive. The posted photos I have seen were clear and correspond to my need.

Without any experience in digiscoping it's VERY difficult to clear out what is good and what is not.

My need are quite simple:

-I want to make digiscoping with great quality of image.
-I want to be able to shoot at different distance, but mostly on long range (about 100m)
-I got an dSLR (Canon XSi) and want to shoot with it.
-I don't expect to shoot under rainy conditions

A question remains:
Astro or spotting ?

I'm tight on budget: 2500$ is my highest possibilities.

Thank you for your experienced help !

My choice will certainly and almost only be oriented by your suggestions and recommendations.

Robert L Jarvis · Jan 29, 2009

Andy's proposal strikes me as being very beneficial and to enable enthusiasts to see that there are two "classes" of digiscoping will certainly assist them in their search how they want to go about it.

I think though the title of the forum should be such that the two "classes" can be identified so people can see directly where to go.

Paul and Jules have done considerable work on developing the Astrscope angle and should be commended for what they have achieved and the advice given. Whilst it may not be to every one's taste it does indeed have an increasing following so a separate forum is not only desirable but to be commended.

Robert

JGobeil · Jan 29, 2009

Robert L Jarvis said:
Andy's proposal strikes me as being very beneficial and to enable enthusiasts to see that there are two "classes" of digiscoping will certainly assist them in their search how they want to go about it.

I think though the title of the forum should be such that the two "classes" can be identified so people can see directly where to go.

Paul and Jules have done considerable work on developing the Astrscope angle and should be commended for what they have achieved and the advice given. Whilst it may not be to every one's taste it does indeed have an increasing following so a separate forum is not only desirable but to be commended.

Robert

Thanks for your kind words Robert, but I feel that it is Paul that deserves the credit. Without him, I would not have gone that route and my contribution has been minimal compared to his. Thanks again Paul !

I feel that your suggestion for 2 classes is a good one.

Regards
Jules

cango · Feb 8, 2009

And, if needed (for the sticky, or other sticky) all of us with astro/dslr setups could supply photos/descriptions of our setups to demonstrate the variety of the setups we have, yet pointing out the common threads.

Chris Galvin · Jun 6, 2009

Andy FWIW i think that if you are gonna expand the digiscoping section then i think that you should make TWO extra subforums and that they should be DSLR telephotography and astro-telephotography. As thebnumbernof different enquiries that I get are divided between the two categories

New Subforum for telescopes/DSLR digiscoping. (1 Viewer)

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