Fuzzy photos...need input from you pros. (1 Viewer)

I'm still working on this prob myself, but thought that maybe some of you more experienced digiscopers might be able to help. I'll be as brief as possible. I'm using a Pentax 65ED scope with a 20-60X eyepiece, Coolpix 990 camera and a homemade adapter that allows the camera lens to be set right up against the eyepiece of the scope. The camera takes sharp pics by itself and the scope is very sharp by itself, but I keep getting fuzzy photos when I combine them...and ALL photos seem to have about the same fuzziness. I've attached a couple of pics so you can see. I use a Manfrotto tripod and a 16" manual shutter release. These photos were taken on a near windless day. I focused the scope on the branch, slipped the camera into position, used the macro (flower) setting on yellow, Spot AF area focusing, pushed the release half way down to prefocus the camera on the branch, and snapped the pic when all was ready. Image quality was set to "fine". The photos were taken at f3.2 and 1/225 sec.(aperture priority, manual), ISO 100. I used Photoshop Elements to crop, change lighting levels, and used unsharpen mask (150, 1.5 and 2). Still the fuzziness! Any ideas? Yes, I know the exposure is not good, I'll underexpose a bit next time. Also, the scope was on 20X and the camera about midway between wide-angle and telephoto.

Jeff,

All I can suggest is setting the image size to 'normal' and the camera to 'continuous' shooting mode and take 3-5 images in a burst. The first image is usually blurry, but the remaining tend to be much sharper. As for normal image size I've gotten tack-sharp images whereas the 'fine' sized images looked softer when shooting the same subject. I also drape my arm over the scope to add weight. Good luck!

Jerry

Jeff Chase said:

I'm still working on this prob myself, but thought that maybe some of you more experienced digiscopers might be able to help. I'll be as brief as possible. I'm using a Pentax 65ED scope with a 20-60X eyepiece, Coolpix 990 camera and a homemade adapter that allows the camera lens to be set right up against the eyepiece of the scope. The camera takes sharp pics by itself and the scope is very sharp by itself, but I keep getting fuzzy photos when I combine them...and ALL photos seem to have about the same fuzziness. I've attached a couple of pics so you can see. I use a Manfrotto tripod and a 16" manual shutter release. These photos were taken on a near windless day. I focused the scope on the branch, slipped the camera into position, used the macro (flower) setting on yellow, Spot AF area focusing, pushed the release half way down to prefocus the camera on the branch, and snapped the pic when all was ready. Image quality was set to "fine". The photos were taken at f3.2 and 1/225 sec.(aperture priority, manual), ISO 100. I used Photoshop Elements to crop, change lighting levels, and used unsharpen mask (150, 1.5 and 2). Still the fuzziness! Any ideas? Yes, I know the exposure is not good, I'll underexpose a bit next time. Also, the scope was on 20X and the camera about midway between wide-angle and telephoto.

Click to expand...

A couple of things spring to mind - it may be just a technique and processing issue.

Your technique sounds pretty good for taking the photos though I find it's best to try to focus on the eye or the legs/feet asthe rest of the bird falls into focus. In Hummer8 the bill and throat are in focus but the eye and rest of the body are behind the plane of focus. Possibly a bit of camera shake there as the branch isn't sharp though the bill and throat seem to be. Shutter speed is high enough so I'd have increased aperture slightly to give a bit more depth of field which would have brought more of the bird in focus. Some of my favourite photos were taken 1/15 sec at f11 - if the bird is sitting still long enough it's worth while gradually reducing the aperture.

Hummer7 is more or less in focus throughout which brings me onto the processing issue. I've yet to take a truely sharp digiscoped shot at full size. All digiscoped shots need some downsizing and sharpening and even filtering. Downsizing reducing say 1600x1200 to 800x600 gives an apparent sharpening of the image by itself but also the resized image can be sharpenend further. Sharpening introduces more noise so use of noise filtration software is preferable.

With these I downsized to 75%, used unsharp mask and then Picturecooler noise filtration - NeatImage a freebie download works just as well.

Thanks for the input, guys. I just tried the "normal" vs. "fine" settings on the camera without much effect. Also tried the downsizing idea without much success. I'm beginning to think that processing is the major problem. The photos that (I believe) you re-worked, Ian, are much improved. Also, I may be expecting the photos AS THEY COME OUT OF THE CAMERA to be much crisper than they are...there is simply NO area of the photos that are crisp until after processing (and even then they're not as sharp as I'd like). I guess "nothing worthwhile is ever easy".

Have you done some tests in really controlled conditions, Jeff? At the below site :
http://www.eagleeyeuk.com/erol2eu/erol.html
if click on "Digiscoping and birding" then "Digibirding Guide" then scroll to bottom there are some suggestions there for a routine to try. Maybe the experts here might suggest some improvements on these for your case.

If under ideal conditions you can't get a decently sharp picture of a 2D target of a black cross on white background then maybe time to look at more obscure options; maybe changing eyepiece to camera lens distance?

Would be great if you could give access to your original photos too. Because you've done an unsharp mask operation on them it makes it more difficult to tell whether the unsharpness is due to camera shake, lack of focus or whatever. You won't be able to upload originals directly to Birdforum though.

One other thing to consider is that whilst digiscoping permits you to take photos from a greater distance, you can't beat getting as close as you can, escpecially with small birds like these. If yuo can get within 30' then all the better. Closer taken shots usually ease some of the challenges with digiscoping such as atmospheric pollution (heat haze, dust etc.) and also allow easier focus control and higher shutter speeds.

I guess the main problem of fuzzy digiscoped shots is camera shake.The slightest movement and one has a fuzzy image.Plus the fact we all tend to digiscope birds at a distance,which is the reason for digiscoping in the first place,resulting in images we are never happy with.Very difficult,but a challenge.When one does manage a decent pic the whole episode is definitely well worthwhile.

Jeff,
I always had -0.7 stops dialled into my Coolpix cameras. Hummers are tough but I always found that quality improved through the day as the light got lower in the sky. I like to photograph them around 4.00pm in Scottsdale in winter as they seem to sit for longer and the light is the best. I always wondered whether the irradescence on the throat and head might fool the camera focus. I will often focus on the branch not the bird. Also , as already suggested , take a lot of frames and slower move closer. Try taking at least 20 photos if the bird cooperates.
Neil

Thanks

I'm still having trouble with the soft/fuzzy images. I'm starting to believe that the combination of 20X on the scope and slightly telephoto on the camera gives me too much magnification thus resulting in soft images.

Neil, I'm going to try that -0.7 bit also (I notice Andy Bright suggests under-exposing as well). I don't know what effect hummingbird irradescence has on focus, but it sure has an effect on exposure...those throat patches just get blown out!

Christine and Ian, I shot those hummers from about 30' and I took 8-9 images...every one of them was soft/fuzzy. I'm sending along another photo taken on a different (overcast) day, thus slower shutter speed. Same problem. Next time I have a chance to get out I'll send along a couple of shots without any image adjustments except down-sizing.

Jeff

Jeff,perhaps you are using too much"zoom".this can tend to blow a digiscoped image.

Jeff,
It looks like your point of focus was the feeder not the bird plus the birds at feeders tend to be active and so harder to get sharp photos. I find that most of my photos out of the camera need some post-processing as I don't want the camera doing too much. I adjusted yours a little. I hope you don't mind. Neil.

Thanks again

Christine, I believe I'm kind of stuck with the lens setting...if I go more toward the wide angle I start vignetting and if I go the other way I loose the "yellow flower".

Neil, again you show how processing is so important...you definitely improved that photo. Do you recall what you did?

Norm, thanks for the lead to Eagle Optics's site. In case there are others reading this thread who are having my same issues, here's what they have to say:

A Bad way to Practice
Go out for the whole day when it is dull and overcast and take hundreds of photos of very fast moving objects. Come home exhausted and look at the images on your computer / TV. Huff and puff because hardly any have come out well and those that nearly have are either badly framed or not in good focus. Curse the day you decided to digiscope and blame everyone from the scope manufacturer, to the camera manufacturer, to the sales assistants for the bad results and your disappointment. Go to bed annoyed and upset wondering what underhanded trickery is used by the many people who get those nice digiscoped images that you have seen everywhere.

A Good way to Practice
Practice on a nice sunny day when there is no significant wind blowing.
Practice alone, in peace and quiet and without disctractions.
Set-up in a shaded position somewhere near your computer ( in the back garden for example ).
Mount your scope securely on a sturdy tripod ( set the tripod low-down so that you can use it in a seated position ).
Use a low magnification power eyepiece ( e.g 20x or our new 10x/12x low power DigiScoping eyepiece ).
Adjust the camera settings as detailed above ( if your camera is different follow the settings as far as possible )
Using the DigiMount Adapter, secure your camera to the scope.
Use a Shutter Release Cable ( or the camera timer ) when taking the photos.
Securely mount a colourful / sharp photograph of A4 size about 40 feet away from the scope position.
Take-up a seated position at the camera and have a sip of tea, coffee, beer or whatever you fancy.
Locate subject / adjust the scope focus until the image in the camera LCD screen appears sharp.
Take 10 photos adjusting the scope focus for each one, if you feel it is necessary ( no more than 10 ).
Review your results on the computer / TV noting the accuracy of focus.
Try to recall what the image looked like in the LCD for the photos where focus was good.
Take 10 more photos adjusting the scope focus for each one, if you feel it is necessary ( no more than 10 ).
Review your results on the computer / TV noting the accuracy of focus.
Try to recall what the image looked like in the LCD for the photos where focus was good.
Repeat the above process until you can regularly achieve good focus for most of the 10 images.

Once you are at this stage you can slowly start to introduce 'real-life' complexities into the process ( one at a time ). For example, practice when it is not so sunny or when there is some wind blowing or on a moving subject etc., but each time repeat the same process as before so that you can learn the sort of difficulties that each complexity introduces, how this affects your digiscoping and ways of overcoming the problems.

I've a long way to go here...lots of ideas to try out. I'll get to them when the weather cooperates.

Jeff

jeff,
I'm a bit late to this thread, but it seems to me that your problem may well lie with your equipment.
You state that you use a manual release which is pressed to focus before pressing again to take the picture. This is two movements that will cause camera shake, unavoidable when taking photos at long distance and high magnification. Everything must be rock steady throughout the process.
Your only solution is to use a electronic release, if available.

Jeff,if you do not have an electronic release,could you not try just gently stroking your shutter button as opposed to a downward push.Sometimes this helps to alleviate camera shake.Or try using the timer,then you do not have to use the shutter .

Jeff Chase said:

I'm still working on this prob myself, but thought that maybe some of you more experienced digiscopers might be able to help. I'll be as brief as possible. I'm using a Pentax 65ED scope with a 20-60X eyepiece, Coolpix 990 camera and a homemade adapter that allows the camera lens to be set right up against the eyepiece of the scope. The camera takes sharp pics by itself and the scope is very sharp by itself, but I keep getting fuzzy photos when I combine them...and ALL photos seem to have about the same fuzziness. I've attached a couple of pics so you can see. I use a Manfrotto tripod and a 16" manual shutter release. These photos were taken on a near windless day. I focused the scope on the branch, slipped the camera into position, used the macro (flower) setting on yellow, Spot AF area focusing, pushed the release half way down to prefocus the camera on the branch, and snapped the pic when all was ready. Image quality was set to "fine". The photos were taken at f3.2 and 1/225 sec.(aperture priority, manual), ISO 100. I used Photoshop Elements to crop, change lighting levels, and used unsharpen mask (150, 1.5 and 2). Still the fuzziness! Any ideas? Yes, I know the exposure is not good, I'll underexpose a bit next time. Also, the scope was on 20X and the camera about midway between wide-angle and telephoto.

Click to expand...

Jeff, Looking at your shots I think your problem might be in focusing, auto focus will pick up on the easiest thing it can find to focus on and not always what you want it to be.
Several things to try, preferably on a static subject, first get out of any wind - shoot from indoors at an easy to focus on target.
Use manual focus - set the distance scale to 7-10mtrs, focus the scope as accurately as you can (even zooming up to 4x to do so, but zooming back to take your shots), check focus when you've attached the camera, if it looks ok take a few pics, now focus again by using the screen ie. put the scope slightly out of focus and refocus it using only the screen to do so, take a few more shots, keep a note of what shots are what.
Now do the same thing but in auto focus using the flower symbol.
Then do it again but in normal auto focus ie. not using the flower symbol.

It would be a good idea to load the pics into your PC now and see if there is any difference, it will give you a good idea if your focusing is a problem or if it is the cameras' auto focus.

Let us know how you get on and we'll take it from there.

regards

john

Jeff,
I basically just ran a basic Unsharp Mask over it (200/0.2/0 ) .Neil.

Jeff Chase said:

I'm still working on this prob myself, but thought that maybe some of you more experienced digiscopers might be able to help. I'll be as brief as possible. I'm using a Pentax 65ED scope with a 20-60X eyepiece, Coolpix 990 camera and a homemade adapter that allows the camera lens to be set right up against the eyepiece of the scope. The camera takes sharp pics by itself and the scope is very sharp by itself, but I keep getting fuzzy photos when I combine them...and ALL photos seem to have about the same fuzziness. I've attached a couple of pics so you can see. I use a Manfrotto tripod and a 16" manual shutter release. These photos were taken on a near windless day. I focused the scope on the branch, slipped the camera into position, used the macro (flower) setting on yellow, Spot AF area focusing, pushed the release half way down to prefocus the camera on the branch, and snapped the pic when all was ready. Image quality was set to "fine". The photos were taken at f3.2 and 1/225 sec.(aperture priority, manual), ISO 100. I used Photoshop Elements to crop, change lighting levels, and used unsharpen mask (150, 1.5 and 2). Still the fuzziness! Any ideas? Yes, I know the exposure is not good, I'll underexpose a bit next time. Also, the scope was on 20X and the camera about midway between wide-angle and telephoto.

Click to expand...

Hi Jeff,

You've had some great suggestions - I could only offer a couple tips and techniques and one possible suggestion for more camera stability.

First, you might want to look into getting a DigiSnap 2000 remote release for your 990. The DigiSnap 2000 is made by HarborTronics and allows you to both autofocus and snap the shutter without moving the camera at all. It's done electronically through your 990's serial port with this device.

Second, a few "trade secrets" which will help you with post processing. As mentioned by another poster, you can use noise reduction such as Noise Ninja or Neat Image, but I would suggest only on the background which has no detail. You can select the areas in PhotoShop you want to apply the noise reduction to and this will help with background grain. Of course there is another way to handle it which actually takes a bit more work but does a better job without leaving any artifacts at all. Just select the out-of-focus areas and apply gaussian blur at about 3 to 5 pixel radius. Get close to but not closer than 5 pixels to your subject and clone the out of focus background up to the edges of you subjects after the gaussian blur.

Next tip is that lower resolution digicams tend to put a good bit of color noise into very small areas which can't be adequately resolved. You see this along with a modicum of chromatic aberration in the tree branches. This is pretty well "hidden" in the hummer's feathers and isn't an issue for prints, but on the tree branches it stands out. The branches this hummer sits on actually have no essential color other than greyscale, so if you zoom in to about 700% you can easily select them and simply desaturate them. It adds a great deal to the qualitative appearance and really doesn't detract at all because in reality they had little if any natural color. The VAST majority of the color in them was color noise and chromatic aberration. You can't do this on "all" your tree branch images, but in ones like this it's perfectly acceptable and makes for a much better image.

Finally, though PhotoShop's unsharp mask is a great tool, there are other ways of sharpening using deconvolution tools which actually can correct for slight mis-focus. On your image I used Focus Magic for touching up the sharpness, used gaussian blur to smooth the background and selectively desaturated the tree branches to remove chromatic aberration and color noise.

Here's a link:

http://www.lin-evans.net/allen/allenshummer.jpg

Best regards,

Lin

Although it is recommended that ones uses the Macro mode(yellow flower) for digiscoping,the infinity mode also works very well,esp for birds at a greater distance.I always use this mode and do find that the images are more acceptable than when I use the Macro setting.

Foul Weather

I haven't seen the sun in DAYS and so am on hold in regards to trying out some of your suggestions. I'll be back later.

Jeff