Swarovski 8x25 CL-P best compact binocular? (1 Viewer)

cycleguy · Feb 17, 2014

Stephen,

Since off topic, did you ever try the cabelas meopta 8x32 hd and give a review on it?

I'd like to hear what you thought of it.

I've never seen the cascades porro, just the cascades roof. Sounds like you found a great bin at a great price. Unfortunately the ergos of porros never worked for me so i ended out selling my SE which i consider to be the most amazing view i've seen.

Still want to hear your thoughts on the cabelas meopta.

CG

stephen b · Feb 17, 2014

cycleguy said:
Stephen,

Since off topic, did you ever try the cabelas meopta 8x32 hd and give a review on it?

I'd like to hear what you thought of it.

I've never seen the cascades porro, just the cascades roof. Sounds like you found a great bin at a great price. Unfortunately the ergos of porros never worked for me so i ended out selling my SE which i consider to be the most amazing view i've seen.

Still want to hear your thoughts on the cabelas meopta.

CG

CG-

I certainly will later when I get a chance. But now I would just be going on memory. I did pick up and check out the 8x32 Cabelas/ Meopta HD last summer, early fall and did return them. I will post results later. Wish I would have those and the Conquest to compare side by side; not sure who would win. I think just going off of memory the Zeiss may be the sharper bin. Both were not as sharp, nor as bright as the Swaro Habicht, but still very nice bins. The Meopta's ergos and eye relief was better for me than the Zeiss. The Zeiss, just on appearance and fell seems to be a better quality of binocular- but that is very subjective.

As far as ergo's of porros- that is very individual I know. The Leupold Cascade Porro has to have, for me, one of the very best ergonomic feels of any binocular I have held. Maybe, just maybe not as good as the Swaro 8x32's- but very close, and possibly better in some ways. It does not feel like most porros- it has more of a Roof feel. And there is no fiddling with fingers putting them through an open bridge ( and I do like open bridge bino's )- you just wrap your fingers around the prism housing and they gently fill your hands and the feel is effortless. Hard to describe other than that- they are a joy to hold and have great balance. They only weigh about 25 oz and feel even lighter in hand because of ergos and balance.

It is a real shame that Leupold does not make them anymore. They do have a narrow FOV at 6.4-6.5 I believe ( more like a 10x FOV), but they have pretty good edges for that view. Often when using them, I think about what could be done if any of the big optic makers stepped up and made a great modern porro. The ergos of the Cascade, coatings of a Swarovski, with a better FOV and maybe a couple more things. The Cascade is close- but I would love it if my 8x30 Swaro Habicht had the same ergos as the Cascade, and also had the twist up Cascade eyecups, with the same FOV and stunning sharpness of the Habicht.

Really just a Swarovision/ or Nikon SE view (but without the total flat SV view for me) in a Porro body like the Cascade; and all the best glass and coatings. A blend of the best of the Habicht and the Cascade and SV/ SE. Really not to much to ask

. But I guess I can dream a bit. For now, I will stick with what I have.

denco@comcast.n · Feb 18, 2014

stephen b said:
CG-

I certainly will later when I get a chance. But now I would just be going on memory. I did pick up and check out the 8x32 Cabelas/ Meopta HD last summer, early fall and did return them. I will post results later. Wish I would have those and the Conquest to compare side by side; not sure who would win. I think just going off of memory the Zeiss may be the sharper bin. Both were not as sharp, nor as bright as the Swaro Habicht, but still very nice bins. The Meopta's ergos and eye relief was better for me than the Zeiss. The Zeiss, just on appearance and fell seems to be a better quality of binocular- but that is very subjective.

As far as ergo's of porros- that is very individual I know. The Leupold Cascade Porro has to have, for me, one of the very best ergonomic feels of any binocular I have held. Maybe, just maybe not as good as the Swaro 8x32's- but very close, and possibly better in some ways. It does not feel like most porros- it has more of a Roof feel. And there is no fiddling with fingers putting them through an open bridge ( and I do like open bridge bino's )- you just wrap your fingers around the prism housing and they gently fill your hands and the feel is effortless. Hard to describe other than that- they are a joy to hold and have great balance. They only weigh about 25 oz and feel even lighter in hand because of ergos and balance.

It is a real shame that Leupold does not make them anymore. They do have a narrow FOV at 6.4-6.5 I believe ( more like a 10x FOV), but they have pretty good edges for that view. Often when using them, I think about what could be done if any of the big optic makers stepped up and made a great modern porro. The ergos of the Cascade, coatings of a Swarovski, with a better FOV and maybe a couple more things. The Cascade is close- but I would love it if my 8x30 Swaro Habicht had the same ergos as the Cascade, and also had the twist up Cascade eyecups, with the same FOV and stunning sharpness of the Habicht.

Really just a Swarovision/ or Nikon SE view (but without the total flat SV view for me) in a Porro body like the Cascade; and all the best glass and coatings. A blend of the best of the Habicht and the Cascade and SV/ SE. Really not to much to ask . But I guess I can dream a bit. For now, I will stick with what I have.

The Leupold Cascade porro is a good binocular optically. I just got tired of the narrow FOV after a while for some reason and decided I preferred the roof view for birding. There was something with the Leupold optically that felt like the two fields from the left and right objective did not exactly merge into one concentric circle easily like a good roof. Kind of weird.The eyecups on the Zeiss Conquest 8x32 HD were just a little short for me also making eye placement critical to avoid blackouts. Overall, The SV's work best for me but the little Swaro 8x30 CL's are pretty close and it is nice to have something a little smaller and lighter sometimes. If the eye cups and eye relief don't work with your eye sockets your dead in the water. I compared the Meopta and I didn't think it was as good optically as the Conquest HD. I also agree the Meopta doesn't have as good of build quality as the Conquest either.

FrankD · Feb 18, 2014

Stephen,

You can still purchase the Leupold design in the Opticron HR WP. Same design....I owned several Cascade porros, the Minox BD BP and extensively tried the HR WP. Great bins for the variety of reasons mentioned.

stephen b · Feb 18, 2014

[email protected] said:
There was something with the Leupold optically that felt like the two fields from the left and right objective did not exactly merge into one concentric circle easily like a good roof. Kind of weird.

That is a bit strange- because I feel the exact opposite about that regarding the Cascade. To me ( for both samples I have seen with this bin), the Cascade is one of the best I have seen in that regard, and very easy and forgiving in producing that circle.

stephen b · Feb 18, 2014

FrankD said:
Stephen,

You can still purchase the Leupold design in the Opticron HR WP. Same design....I owned several Cascade porros, the Minox BD BP and extensively tried the HR WP. Great bins for the variety of reasons mentioned.

Thanks Frank,

I did know that- it was just that I would have preferred that Leupold stuck with it also. If for no other reason than I do like the company; and they are based out of my state. But they do seem to change and dump their binocular offerings quite a bit.

denco@comcast.n · Feb 20, 2014

stephen b said:
Thanks Frank,

I did know that- it was just that I would have preferred that Leupold stuck with it also. If for no other reason than I do like the company; and they are based out of my state. But they do seem to change and dump their binocular offerings quite a bit.

I had the Opticron HR WP.

stephen b · Feb 20, 2014

[email protected] said:
I had the Opticron HR WP.

Then why did you post this in response to me discussing the 8x42 Leupold Cascade porro?,- if you never even had the Leupold Cascade:

[email protected] said:
The Leupold Cascade porro is a good binocular optically. I just got tired of the narrow FOV after a while for some reason and decided I preferred the roof view for birding. There was something with the Leupold optically that felt like the two fields from the left and right objective did not exactly merge into one concentric circle easily like a good roof. Kind of weird.......

That is what is weird! Because you sure sounded like you had and had used the Leupold model Do you go through so many binos that you can not even tell what you had, and you just make stuff up?

Seems like the only binoculars that you have good positive comments on is what ever your flavor of the month. Is any of your current go to binoculars ones that you have had even for a year? ( which would be a LONG time for you)

You are incredible!

______________________

in·cred·i·ble
inˈkredəbəl/
adjective
adjective: incredible

1.
impossible to believe.
"an almost incredible tale of triumph and tragedy"
synonyms: unbelievable, beyond belief, hard to believe, unconvincing, far-fetched, implausible, improbable, highly unlikely, dubious, doubtful; More
inconceivable, unthinkable, unimaginable, impossible;
informalhard to swallow, cock-and-bull
"I find his story incredible"
2.
difficult to believe;

brocknroller · Feb 20, 2014

FrankD said:
Stephen,

You can still purchase the Leupold design in the Opticron HR WP. Same design....I owned several Cascade porros, the Minox BD BP and extensively tried the HR WP. Great bins for the variety of reasons mentioned.

You forgot to finish your last sentence:

"Great bins for the variety of reasons mentioned, but ultimately, I sold them all to buy some more cheap roofs."

Leupold Cascade porros still gets my vote for the best ergos ever. Cascades = Glove = Hand.

Unfortunately, I suffer from FOV claustrophobia, but if the FOV were wider, say 7.5*, the Cascade would be my birding bin for overcast days and in the winter (that is, if I could find one with a smooth turning focuser, I'd probably have to buy five like you did).

Apparently, the industry thinks that the cost of making a more sophisticated EP in a porro, would cause a "Cascade Failure," so I don't think we will ever see this design further developed, but instead popping up under different labels with some minor cosmetic changes as it has been.

I liken it to a tight end who caught an amazing pass, but failed to run the ball past the goal posts for the touch down. Broncos fans know what I'm talking about.

I'd like to see a wider FOV Cascade/HR WP with an expanded line-up. The ergos can't be beat and having an internal focus on a porro would get more people to buy them. What the world needs (but is not enlightened enough to realize) is an expanded line of Cascades in 7x42 (8* FOV), 10x50, 12x50, 8x56, 10x56, and 15x56, with ED glass. Then if somebody said, I can hold these 15x bins steady, I might believe him.

The expanded line would provide at least equal performance to the best mid-tier roofs today, for less cost, and with better 3-D effect and more comfortable ergonomics for the Big Handed.

<B>

FrankD · Feb 21, 2014

"He is nothing but a dreamer...a dreamer....

Sorry, couldn't resist Brock.

I did sell all of my internal focus porros Brock. I kept the best of the Leupold quintuplets for last and sold it to someone here but I can't honestly remember who. That was years ago when I went through binoculars like you go through keyboards.

Nowadays, money is tighter so I have to be much more practical in terms of what I buy. I certainly haven't bought any "five packs" of bins lately...unless you count the 7-pack of $8 bins I just purchased for my youngest's cub scout pack. I volunteered to do their birding badge and thought some inexpensive (but properly functioning) bins along with a pamphlet-style laminated field guide would spur some interest on their part. Everybody loves getting free things.

Back to the internal focus porro issue....I would buy one of the Opticron HR WP 8x42s again in a minute if I had the money. The truth is that I just don't...even at the $350 that they typically sell for. I did spend a great deal of time comparing all of the Opticron models at several of the birding expos over the last two years. I honestly felt that the HR WP was the sharpest and brightest of any of their bins at that aperture or less. Would love to own a pair but, priorities as they are, I would much rather pay the mortgage, monthly bills and make sure my kids get what they need and deserve.

brocknroller · Feb 21, 2014

FrankD said:
"He is nothing but a dreamer...a dreamer....

Sorry, couldn't resist Brock.

I did sell all of my internal focus porros Brock. I kept the best of the Leupold quintuplets for last and sold it to someone here but I can't honestly remember who. That was years ago when I went through binoculars like you go through keyboards.

Nowadays, money is tighter so I have to be much more practical in terms of what I buy. I certainly haven't bought any "five packs" of bins lately...unless you count the 7-pack of $8 bins I just purchased for my youngest's cub scout pack. I volunteered to do their birding badge and thought some inexpensive (but properly functioning) bins along with a pamphlet-style laminated field guide would spur some interest on their part. Everybody loves getting free things.

Back to the internal focus porro issue....I would buy one of the Opticron HR WP 8x42s again in a minute if I had the money. The truth is that I just don't...even at the $350 that they typically sell for. I did spend a great deal of time comparing all of the Opticron models at several of the birding expos over the last two years. I honestly felt that the HR WP was the sharpest and brightest of any of their bins at that aperture or less. Would love to own a pair but, priorities as they are, I would much rather pay the mortgage, monthly bills and make sure my kids get what they need and deserve.

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you will join us
When the porro revival has begun.

Great what you're doing for the scouts. I guess that shows how much interest has increased in birding over the past century. I don't think we had a birding merit badge when I was a Cub Scout or a Boy Scout, but I did learn to tie lots of knots, which could have come in handy if I ever became a sailor. I could tie myself to a mast after shore leave so I didn't end up in the drink after a long visit with Captain Jack. B

I assume that one of your kids is in the scouts. Does he think it's a little weird for his dad to be teaching birding to his fellow scouts? "Yeah, um...he's my dad, he likes birds, what can I say?"

What your kids need and deserve is an affordable college education. Send them to Canada so they don't have to spend 20 years after they graduate paying back their student loans and so you can start buying alphas again. Plus while they're up there, they can learn how to play hockey!

Canuck U.

Brock

CloseFocus · Mar 5, 2014

(Originally posted in the "Leica Still Tops In My Book" thread in the Leica site - edited for content some may find objectionable)

Recently I bought a Swarovski 8x25 CL because it fills a niche in my line up (low power, sub-mid size binocular that's lighter and smaller than a 32 mm, but bigger and easier to handle than an 8x20). It's a fine binocular, but there are a few things I have noticed:

- There are two ridges that form when the hinges are opened that are sharper than they need to be.

- A gap is created that can (and has) pinched my fingers when the hinges are closed.

- The bridge edges and tube tops are unarmored.

- The rubber armor in the eyecups is thin, presumably to allow the eyecups to retract close to the binocular body.

- I like the Swarovski focus knob design more than I thought I would, but it doesn't feel as rugged as the focus knobs on my 8x20 and 10x25 Ultravids. Time will tell how it will hold up.

Troubador · Mar 5, 2014

CF

A great rant by a true enthusiast!

Lee

Old_sailor · Mar 19, 2015

I suppose compact binoculars should ideally be what it says on the box. e.g. compact. However, I’ve owned three pairs over the years (Leica 8x20, Swarovski 8x22, Opticron 8x21) and all were indeed small - in size, weight and, yes, performance. There was never a chance that small bins could perform anywhere near full size ones but the new Swaros are different – very different. For me, they are far superior to just about any Compacts or 8x32 or 8x42 OF SIMILAR PRICE.

My wife’s normal bins are Swaro EL 8.5x42s and mine are EL 8x32s (I have to carry the ‘scope, that's my excuse). Last week, we were at one of our regular haunts - Titchwell in Norfolk, UK and we saw some CL 8x25s in the RSPB Centre display cabinet. We tried them straight away, having been told “Try these – you may like them”. The weather was a bit dull but we found them amazing – razor sharp, tons of light and good field of view. The facial pattern on a perched Peregrine falcon were clearly visible at a distance of about half a mile. We bought a pair straight away.

Yes, they are slightly bigger and heavier than what are normally termed as “compacts” but if you want bins which are nearly as good as a full-size pair then these are it. I, and several other birders who tried them found that they were very nearly as good as my 8x32s – and noticeably smaller, lighter and cheaper!

vaughan8 · Apr 15, 2015

Seems to me some of the contributors are missing the point of this binocular. It's not - of course - as tiny as an 8x20. The key feature is the double hinge, which means that it packs way smaller than a centre hinge 8x32, very useful if you're travelling as it takes up little room in the bag or will even go in a pocket - a proper compact - but performs like a proper binocular should.

Robert Wallace · Apr 17, 2015

vaughan8 said:
Seems to me some of the contributors are missing the point of this binocular. It's not - of course - as tiny as an 8x20. The key feature is the double hinge, which means that it packs way smaller than a centre hinge 8x32, very useful if you're travelling as it takes up little room in the bag or will even go in a pocket - a proper compact - but performs like a proper binocular should.

That's exactly right, and they have excellent optical properties, a very impressive binocular.
My only criticism is the lack of lenscaps and over large case. My wife's Nikon HGL 8x20s have a very neat leather case and neatly fitting (single) lenscaps for the eyepieces.
The 8x25s also pack easily into my camera bag a Lowe-pro AW250 sling case.
Recommended!

Alexis Powell · Apr 17, 2015

vaughan8 said:
Seems to me some of the contributors are missing the point of this binocular. It's not - of course - as tiny as an 8x20...

We make the comparison because Swarovski no longer makes an 8x20. For someone looking for an 8x pocket bin, Swarovski is the only alpha maker to offer this format, which has its advantages (larger exit pupil) and disadvantages (larger overall size) compared to the competition.

--AP

Swedpat · Apr 19, 2015

I have had a Leica Ultravid 8x20 but sold it because I was not fully satisfied with the eye relief(though the eye relief was the best of all 8x20s I had tried at that moment). Since a few months I have new eyeglasses who allow my eyes to come 1,5-2mm closer the ocular lenses. Therefore I am sure I had been satisfied with the Ultravid today. I am tempted to get it again. But the price is almost the same as for this new Swarovski 8x25, so the question is if the Swarovski is to prefer. I am sure the optical quality is a non issue here so the question is if I want the more compactness of Ultravid or the better hold comfort and brightness of CL. A comparison picture had been nice!

denco@comcast.n · Apr 19, 2015

I have tried a LOT of compacts and I preferred the Swaovski 8x25 CL-P over anything. It is a little bigger than the 8x20's though.

brocknroller · Apr 23, 2015

Old_sailor said:
I suppose compact binoculars should ideally be what it says on the box. e.g. compact. However, I’ve owned three pairs over the years (Leica 8x20, Swarovski 8x22, Opticron 8x21) and all were indeed small - in size, weight and, yes, performance. There was never a chance that small bins could perform anywhere near full size ones but the new Swaros are different – very different. For me, they are far superior to just about any Compacts or 8x32 or 8x42 OF SIMILAR PRICE.

My wife’s normal bins are Swaro EL 8.5x42s and mine are EL 8x32s (I have to carry the ‘scope, that's my excuse). Last week, we were at one of our regular haunts - Titchwell in Norfolk, UK and we saw some CL 8x25s in the RSPB Centre display cabinet. We tried them straight away, having been told “Try these – you may like them”. The weather was a bit dull but we found them amazing – razor sharp, tons of light and good field of view. The facial pattern on a perched Peregrine falcon were clearly visible at a distance of about half a mile. We bought a pair straight away.

Yes, they are slightly bigger and heavier than what are normally termed as “compacts” but if you want bins which are nearly as good as a full-size pair then these are it. I, and several other birders who tried them found that they were very nearly as good as my 8x32s – and noticeably smaller, lighter and cheaper!

Then up and spake an Old_sailor,
Who saw the land a lay,
"I pray thee, put into yonder port,
for I hunger to go birding today."

Welcome old sailor! I think you assessed Swaro's purpose in making the CL Pocket perfectly. I haven't tried any alpha compact roofs, but I have tried other compact roofs, and I never had any interest in them because of the finicky eye placement due to the small exit pupil, the tiny size for my big hands, and the very light weight, which brings out micro-vibrations that heavier bins dampen. The CL address all those issues, but it does so at the expense of some compactness. There are always tradeoffs, and it depends on what's most important to you and what compromises you can live with.

I'm Curious Yellow to try the CL, because so far, the only compacts I have been able to tolerate are reverse Porro compacts due to their greater "real estate" and "bang for the buck." You can get very decent views through a reverse Porro for a fraction of the price of an alpha. As a birder on a tightwad budget, that's my priority right now, but I'm glad you and your wife will enjoying "twitching" in Titchwell with your CL.

Old_writer

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