Micro Four-Thirds (2 Viewers)

JGobeil said:

If I remember well, there is a Digital Teleconverter function on the EM-5.

Click to expand...

Hi Jules,

I cannot remember seeing such a feature. I searched through the PDF manual and the only reference to 2X is when playing back/reviewing pictures on the LCD.

Tord said:

Hi Jules,

I cannot remember seeing such a feature. I searched through the PDF manual and the only reference to 2X is when playing back/reviewing pictures on the LCD.

Click to expand...

Shooting menu 1 - Manual page 64. I never used it when I had the EM-5 so I don't know if it behaves like the one on the EM-1.

I'm really sorry to read about the problems you guys have with IS. It works quite well for me when I use it as described in the above post. Have you tried it exactly my way ?

Settings I forgot to mention: I set it to 600mm and to be ON on shutter half-press.

Jules,
I have tried EVERYTHING! Are you sure the IS is working? Do you actually SEE it stabilizing the image or do you just hear it? I just hear it, but there is no stabilization whatsoever.

I agree completely about the 2x magnification. It is enough.

Keep in mind though, that half-press=on eats juice like mad!

@ Dan: I removed the battery and put it back after 3-4 days and that cured the IS.

@ Jules: regarding the operational method you suggest, once the IS has entered its "vibration mode" it is not possible to use it since it won't stabilize the image at all. Either the IS does not engage at all, or as soon as you half-press the shutter button the camera vibrates for a second or so, the image in the EVF is heavily blurred and the IS disengages after a second or so. (Refer to the video I uploaded on Youtube .)

Anyway, I have been thinking of the IBIS malfunction and what may be behind it. Looking at how it behaves on Dan's lens collection could it be that weight has an effect? Weight means inertia that in turn should have an impact on the amplitude and frequency of the vibrations. Could it be that the IS is designed/optimized for lenses which weight is within the range of the Zuiko lenses that Olympus have tested?

Since removing the battery and provoking a reset does cure the IS, in some way data/parameter(s) that are saved between sessions get reset to default values. Somehow these parameters are given bad/out of bound values while operating the camera with long focal length heavy lens. The use of tripod may also have impact since in effect tilt, yaw and rotation are virtually zero, only translation movements take place.

Once the symptoms start to appear it is just a matter of time before the IS becomes dysfunctional. The symptoms appear initially as gentle vibrations and humming when engaging the IS, these vibrations vanish after a fraction of a second and the IS renders a stabilized image. With time (matter of days), these vibrations will amplify and the IS does not always engage properly. Setting a shorter focal length mitigates the symptom and "buys you time", but eventually it won't help. (The IS effect diminishes as you set incorrect/shorter focal length, but still better than no IS).

I recently found that gently shaking the camera on the tripod (amplitude something like a cm, frequency a few Hz) while half pressing the shutter button may cause the IS to engage as it should - but that is not really practical in field conditions. Now I remove the battery as soon as possible after the first symptoms appear.

There seems to be some random pattern in how long the IS stays healthy.

• On my first EM5, IS worked perfectly for > 5 months
• On next EM5, IS worked about two months. Olympus replaced the IS.
• The replaced IS worked less than one day. Olympus found no fault on the IS and reset the camera to factory settings, IS worked as it should.
• Factory reset camera IS worked 3 months . Removed battery cured it.
• Reset camera IS worked 2 weeks (I took many photos, though). Removed battery cured it (this is where I am today)

I checked the 2.0 FW release notes but there is nothing mentioned about IS issues corrected. Will update the camera FW prior to next photo session.

/Tord

Your video is exactly what mine does, but it does it even if I hold the whole business in my hands.
Leaving the battery our for a day or so only performs a factory reset. I have done that through the service menu three times. Nothing.
At the moment my feeling is that the IBIS is too sensitive to be cranked up above 400mm or so, and I am not even going to play with it any more. Don't want to risk anything. Getting a bit fed up.
Meeting a guy on Saturday to do some comparison tests of my scope vs his Canon 500/5 Mk I. I am VERY curious about that.

I think I wasn't clear in my explanation... Here is how I do it.

1. IS is set to engage on half-shutter press.
2. I focus using Digital TC or Peaking, without touching the shutter button so that IS is not working when focusing.
3. Then I press the shutter in a relaxed motion so that I do not jerk the camera and scope. I can't measure how long it takes to press the shutter but it is certainly less than 1 second.
4. There are no vibrations to be felt but I think it is enough for IS to do its job. The results lead me to think that IS is indeed working. So far I haven't seen any photo that was blurred because of movement or vibrations.
5. This technique works well for me and I am pleased with the results. If IS is not working, like Dan seems to think, then I don't need IS when using the scope.

I have also been using this technique with regular camera lenses without using a tripod, the Oly 12-40mm and the Panasonic 100-300mm. I have set the AEL/AFL button so that AEL engages when I press the AEL button. If I want to freeze the exposure, I press the AEL/AFL button, if I want to start IS, I half-press the shutter. When ready to take the shot, I smoothly press the shutter. It works great for me!

"It works ok when activated for a short while to finalize manual focus in windy conditions where vibration is important."

"I focus using Digital TC or Peaking, without touching the shutter button so that IS is not working when focusing."

So, which is it? If you don't need IS to focus, why have half-press set to on?

With my 400, at half-press the IS is CLEARLY working. With 600 not at all.
The only way to find out if your IS is working is to do a systematic test. Take a test chart or a bit of newspaper, anything with lots of fine details, and pin it up about 15 meters away. Focus and lock the focuser. Do not lock down the scope! Then take at least 10 shots with IS on (with and without half-press) and then off, taking care to release the shutter the same way each time. Exposure should be maybe around 1/200, a range where IS should be a big help. Then compare.
I use an ISO 12233 chart and focus on one of the resolution crosses.


(You can see here the damage being done to my images with the IS on!)
Now, if there is vertical movement, the horizontal lines will be blurred, and vice verse. So you look and see where you can no longer see individual lines both on the vertical and horizontal arms of the cross, and average the two. Then add them all up and divide by the number of shots. This way you can easily see what is going on.
I did this with my E-30 and found that both on and off averaged out to about 8, but, where there was nothing above 9 and nothing below 7 with it on there were a few 10s and a few 6s with it off.

With the E-M1 I get a strong 9 average with it off, and about a 2-3 with it on.

Dan - try to get hold of some third party batteries (they go cheap on Ebay). When I take out the battery, I always change them. Inserting the same again don't always do the trick. It was long time ago I hade this problem, but then again I haven't had any shooting weather for many moons...

I really can't see how that could change anything.

DanC.Licks said:

I really can't see how that could change anything.

Click to expand...

well, can't give you a technical explanaition, more than that it seem to do the trick for me at least. But perhaps you just got a so called "lemon", that no trick can cure. Hope not. Do you have the posibility to try the e-m1 with another scope? lighter one perhaps? (if that's what is doing it)

I might because I just turned a guy on to a SW 80/600. I am sure he will come by to see me. I do know that the other E-M1 we tried on mine had the same problem. I think mine is almost a kilo heavier than yours.
Does the IS really work on yours?

@ Cango - removing and replacing the battery as you suggested, replacing with either same or other battery. Does not cure the issue. I have three batteries, different makes.

@ All

More thoughts on this topic... The more I think, the more I suspect Olympus have somehow introduced the issue in a FW update.

My first EM-5 showed no symptoms of faulty IS, even when using it with longest possible focal length (1000mm). The FW was 1.0.

My second EM-5 (replacement camera) worked great for 5 months, same scope, same tripod, even at 1000mm. Then something happened in the September timeframe. I clearly remember during what session that happened so I can dig up the date. I also remember updating the camera FW to 1.6 at some point, I will look for traces in my computer so hopefully I can date when I udated the FW and correlate it to when the IS issues started.

If you check out the release notes: here

Ver.1.5 (Oct. 2, 2012)
Use of the Image stabilizer function by setting the Focal length of an OM lens attached with an adapter was enabled even in Movie mode.

Could it be that Olympus introduced a regression in FW version 1.5? Or possibly already in 1.1?

Unfortunately there is no way as far as I know to revert to earlier version. Or is it possible?

I don't think you can revert to an earlier version.

DanC.Licks said:

"It works ok when activated for a short while to finalize manual focus in windy conditions where vibration is important."

"I focus using Digital TC or Peaking, without touching the shutter button so that IS is not working when focusing."

So, which is it? If you don't need IS to focus, why have half-press set to on?

With my 400, at half-press the IS is CLEARLY working. With 600 not at all.
The only way to find out if your IS is working is to do a systematic test. Take a test chart or a bit of newspaper, anything with lots of fine details, and pin it up about 15 meters away. Focus and lock the focuser. Do not lock down the scope! Then take at least 10 shots with IS on (with and without half-press) and then off, taking care to release the shutter the same way each time. Exposure should be maybe around 1/200, a range where IS should be a big help. Then compare.
I use an ISO 12233 chart and focus on one of the resolution crosses.
View attachment 486359 View attachment 486360

(You can see here the damage being done to my images with the IS on!)
Now, if there is vertical movement, the horizontal lines will be blurred, and vice verse. So you look and see where you can no longer see individual lines both on the vertical and horizontal arms of the cross, and average the two. Then add them all up and divide by the number of shots. This way you can easily see what is going on.
I did this with my E-30 and found that both on and off averaged out to about 8, but, where there was nothing above 9 and nothing below 7 with it on there were a few 10s and a few 6s with it off.

With the E-M1 I get a strong 9 average with it off, and about a 2-3 with it on.

Click to expand...

Hi Dan,

Sorry for the delay.

Normally, IS works very quickly and it is not necessary to hold the shutter at half press to stabilize the image. A smooth shutter press should do the job. This is why it is nice to set IS to be on at half shutter press. I do that with my 100-300mm and the stabilization is outstanding, much better than it was with my Canon 50D.

I did a quick test with the scope yesterday. After many days of very cold temperature, we finally had a decent day at -5C.

My normal procedure of the smooth shutter press worked as usual, no noise nor vibration. To my surprise, the photos with IS OFF were as good, if not better than the ones with IS ON - the focus seemed to be more accurate.

Another surprise: with Magnify set at 14X to generate vibrations in the EVF, IS was unable to stabilize the image with the shutter at half press for a second or 2, contrary to the EM-5 wich did a great job at that. There were no vibrations or clunking sounds generated by IS like it happened occasionnaly with the EM-5. IS generates a humming sound. There seems to be a slight shift of the image to one side in the EVF at the beginning of the shutter press and the image goes back when the shutter is released but the vibrations don't stop. I also think the images taken with the same technique are less sharp than those taken with IS OFF.

This is quite a surprise. I took IS for granted since there was no vibration noise but it seems that it is quite useless with the scope. This doesn't bother me too much since I don't feel I really need it now that I have discovered the Digital Tele-Converter as a focusing aid. The scope on a solid tripod and 2X magnification seem a good match: no vibrations and adequate details for accurate focus. From now on, I'll keep IS OFF when using the scope.

Regards
Jules

The whole point of IS at half-press would be to help with focusing, but as you say, 2x is usually enough.
I think the IS system is simply not up to the demands placed on it by a 600mm lens. The "vibration" Olympus talks about on page 67 is for sure just the normal humming if the IS and not the strong shuddering I have experienced and as is visible in Tord's video. I have always felt that the key is getting the ISO up and thus the shutter speed, and as sensors progress, the need for IS will decrease.
The has been a LOT of discussion on the German Olympus thread about "shutter shock" and the E-M1 seems to be plagued with it quite badly. There are many factors involved in it, but i can't help but feel that one big factor is the nature of the E-M1's IBIS. The sensor is "suspended" in magnetic fields and it seems to me that would make it much more susceptible to vibration caused by the shutter than a fixed sensor.
The IS is a great help, but I have yet to see a picture with it that is a sharp as one without it, as long as the shutter speed is sufficient.

Off to the woods! Spring is here!!

DanC.Licks said:

The whole point of IS at half-press would be to help with focusing, but as you say, 2x is usually enough.
I think the IS system is simply not up to the demands placed on it by a 600mm lens. The "vibration" Olympus talks about on page 67 is for sure just the normal humming if the IS and not the strong shuddering I have experienced and as is visible in Tord's video. I have always felt that the key is getting the ISO up and thus the shutter speed, and as sensors progress, the need for IS will decrease.
The has been a LOT of discussion on the German Olympus thread about "shutter shock" and the E-M1 seems to be plagued with it quite badly. There are many factors involved in it, but i can't help but feel that one big factor is the nature of the E-M1's IBIS. The sensor is "suspended" in magnetic fields and it seems to me that would make it much more susceptible to vibration caused by the shutter than a fixed sensor.
The IS is a great help, but I have yet to see a picture with it that is a sharp as one without it, as long as the shutter speed is sufficient.

Off to the woods! Spring is here!!

Click to expand...

Since I purchased the SW80ED, I started to enjoy using a scope and my technique evolved quite a bit. I got the EM-1 late last fall and I haven't used it a lot with the scope, thanks to our Quebec winter. Spring is here for you, for us it will be here shortly... :t: Also, I will be in Florida, a birding paradise, April 1-10.

The technique is simple, as far as I am concerned:

• In bad light, stay home or use regular lenses.
• A solid tripod is mandatory and I keep it as low as possible, kneeling most of the time, or even sitting down.
• High shutter speed is also a necessity. I like to keep it above 1/500 s., and I like 1/1000 s. + even better. To achieve that, I don't mind cranking up ISO up to 3200. If the light is decent, noise can be corrected easily in LR and 6400 might also be ok if conditions require it, although I haven't tried it yet.
• I tend not to use the 1.5X TN nor the 2X barlow anymore except when the bird is very far - also, the light must be very good. I think that cropping produces better results.

One special consideration for focusing. Since my eyes are getting older, I suspect that it makes accurate focusing difficult - my capacity to read small characters and my minimum focusing distance seem to vary according to light, the time of day eyestrain and my state of tiredness. The Magnify function I was using with the EM-5 is not very good: at a minimum of 5X introduces too much vibration. The Digital TC, at 2X, is much better. The tests I did yesterday lead me to believe that it is even better when combining Digital TC with Peaking - that way, accurate focus is not dependent on my eyesight.

Regards
Jules

I find the E-M1 borderline at 3200. The problem I have with focus peaking is that it makes the EVF flicker more than it does already. I find it hard on my eyes, but it does work.
Otherwise, all standard procedure...

My standard procedure.

Photograph no matter what the light.

Use a very cheap tripod with legs at full extension.

Go down to 1/24 s or less with up to 5X TC and don't lock up the axis.

A bit tongue in cheek and I must stress I've had a few beers but that's what I tended to do with my old Canon 450D at a max of ISO 800. I think when I get my new camera then anything will be possible.

Paul.

I have gotten sharp pictures with the scope at 1/30 and had pleanty of smeared ones at 1/500 and some even as high as 1250. A lot of it is luck, but good techniqoe, (and less beer B ) does help.