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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 16:39   #226
DanC.Licks
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Your video is exactly what mine does, but it does it even if I hold the whole business in my hands.
Leaving the battery our for a day or so only performs a factory reset. I have done that through the service menu three times. Nothing.
At the moment my feeling is that the IBIS is too sensitive to be cranked up above 400mm or so, and I am not even going to play with it any more. Don't want to risk anything. Getting a bit fed up.
Meeting a guy on Saturday to do some comparison tests of my scope vs his Canon 500/5 Mk I. I am VERY curious about that.
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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 16:39   #227
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I think I wasn't clear in my explanation... Here is how I do it.
  1. IS is set to engage on half-shutter press.
  2. I focus using Digital TC or Peaking, without touching the shutter button so that IS is not working when focusing.
  3. Then I press the shutter in a relaxed motion so that I do not jerk the camera and scope. I can't measure how long it takes to press the shutter but it is certainly less than 1 second.
  4. There are no vibrations to be felt but I think it is enough for IS to do its job. The results lead me to think that IS is indeed working. So far I haven't seen any photo that was blurred because of movement or vibrations.
  5. This technique works well for me and I am pleased with the results. If IS is not working, like Dan seems to think, then I don't need IS when using the scope.
I have also been using this technique with regular camera lenses without using a tripod, the Oly 12-40mm and the Panasonic 100-300mm. I have set the AEL/AFL button so that AEL engages when I press the AEL button. If I want to freeze the exposure, I press the AEL/AFL button, if I want to start IS, I half-press the shutter. When ready to take the shot, I smoothly press the shutter. It works great for me!
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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 17:49   #228
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"It works ok when activated for a short while to finalize manual focus in windy conditions where vibration is important."

"I focus using Digital TC or Peaking, without touching the shutter button so that IS is not working when focusing."

So, which is it? If you don't need IS to focus, why have half-press set to on?

With my 400, at half-press the IS is CLEARLY working. With 600 not at all.
The only way to find out if your IS is working is to do a systematic test. Take a test chart or a bit of newspaper, anything with lots of fine details, and pin it up about 15 meters away. Focus and lock the focuser. Do not lock down the scope! Then take at least 10 shots with IS on (with and without half-press) and then off, taking care to release the shutter the same way each time. Exposure should be maybe around 1/200, a range where IS should be a big help. Then compare.
I use an ISO 12233 chart and focus on one of the resolution crosses.
Click image for larger version

Name:	12851857083_a1b611f4e9_o.jpg
Views:	92
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ID:	486359 Click image for larger version

Name:	12851784575_61bc0b24ac_o.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	135.4 KB
ID:	486360

(You can see here the damage being done to my images with the IS on!)
Now, if there is vertical movement, the horizontal lines will be blurred, and vice verse. So you look and see where you can no longer see individual lines both on the vertical and horizontal arms of the cross, and average the two. Then add them all up and divide by the number of shots. This way you can easily see what is going on.
I did this with my E-30 and found that both on and off averaged out to about 8, but, where there was nothing above 9 and nothing below 7 with it on there were a few 10s and a few 6s with it off.

With the E-M1 I get a strong 9 average with it off, and about a 2-3 with it on.

Last edited by DanC.Licks : Thursday 6th March 2014 at 17:53.
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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 18:31   #229
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Dan - try to get hold of some third party batteries (they go cheap on Ebay). When I take out the battery, I always change them. Inserting the same again don't always do the trick. It was long time ago I hade this problem, but then again I haven't had any shooting weather for many moons...
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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 19:23   #230
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I really can't see how that could change anything.
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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 21:10   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanC.Licks View Post
I really can't see how that could change anything.
well, can't give you a technical explanaition, more than that it seem to do the trick for me at least. But perhaps you just got a so called "lemon", that no trick can cure. Hope not. Do you have the posibility to try the e-m1 with another scope? lighter one perhaps? (if that's what is doing it)
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Old Friday 7th March 2014, 08:03   #232
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I might because I just turned a guy on to a SW 80/600. I am sure he will come by to see me. I do know that the other E-M1 we tried on mine had the same problem. I think mine is almost a kilo heavier than yours.
Does the IS really work on yours?
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Old Friday 7th March 2014, 10:01   #233
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@ Cango - removing and replacing the battery as you suggested, replacing with either same or other battery. Does not cure the issue. I have three batteries, different makes.

@ All

More thoughts on this topic... The more I think, the more I suspect Olympus have somehow introduced the issue in a FW update.

My first EM-5 showed no symptoms of faulty IS, even when using it with longest possible focal length (1000mm). The FW was 1.0.

My second EM-5 (replacement camera) worked great for 5 months, same scope, same tripod, even at 1000mm. Then something happened in the September timeframe. I clearly remember during what session that happened so I can dig up the date. I also remember updating the camera FW to 1.6 at some point, I will look for traces in my computer so hopefully I can date when I udated the FW and correlate it to when the IS issues started.

If you check out the release notes: here

Ver.1.5 (Oct. 2, 2012)
Use of the Image stabilizer function by setting the Focal length of an OM lens attached with an adapter was enabled even in Movie mode.

Could it be that Olympus introduced a regression in FW version 1.5? Or possibly already in 1.1?

Unfortunately there is no way as far as I know to revert to earlier version. Or is it possible?
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Old Friday 7th March 2014, 10:13   #234
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I don't think you can revert to an earlier version.
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Old Saturday 8th March 2014, 13:09   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanC.Licks View Post
"It works ok when activated for a short while to finalize manual focus in windy conditions where vibration is important."

"I focus using Digital TC or Peaking, without touching the shutter button so that IS is not working when focusing."

So, which is it? If you don't need IS to focus, why have half-press set to on?

With my 400, at half-press the IS is CLEARLY working. With 600 not at all.
The only way to find out if your IS is working is to do a systematic test. Take a test chart or a bit of newspaper, anything with lots of fine details, and pin it up about 15 meters away. Focus and lock the focuser. Do not lock down the scope! Then take at least 10 shots with IS on (with and without half-press) and then off, taking care to release the shutter the same way each time. Exposure should be maybe around 1/200, a range where IS should be a big help. Then compare.
I use an ISO 12233 chart and focus on one of the resolution crosses.
Attachment 486359 Attachment 486360

(You can see here the damage being done to my images with the IS on!)
Now, if there is vertical movement, the horizontal lines will be blurred, and vice verse. So you look and see where you can no longer see individual lines both on the vertical and horizontal arms of the cross, and average the two. Then add them all up and divide by the number of shots. This way you can easily see what is going on.
I did this with my E-30 and found that both on and off averaged out to about 8, but, where there was nothing above 9 and nothing below 7 with it on there were a few 10s and a few 6s with it off.

With the E-M1 I get a strong 9 average with it off, and about a 2-3 with it on.
Hi Dan,

Sorry for the delay.

Normally, IS works very quickly and it is not necessary to hold the shutter at half press to stabilize the image. A smooth shutter press should do the job. This is why it is nice to set IS to be on at half shutter press. I do that with my 100-300mm and the stabilization is outstanding, much better than it was with my Canon 50D.

I did a quick test with the scope yesterday. After many days of very cold temperature, we finally had a decent day at -5C.

My normal procedure of the smooth shutter press worked as usual, no noise nor vibration. To my surprise, the photos with IS OFF were as good, if not better than the ones with IS ON - the focus seemed to be more accurate.

Another surprise: with Magnify set at 14X to generate vibrations in the EVF, IS was unable to stabilize the image with the shutter at half press for a second or 2, contrary to the EM-5 wich did a great job at that. There were no vibrations or clunking sounds generated by IS like it happened occasionnaly with the EM-5. IS generates a humming sound. There seems to be a slight shift of the image to one side in the EVF at the beginning of the shutter press and the image goes back when the shutter is released but the vibrations don't stop. I also think the images taken with the same technique are less sharp than those taken with IS OFF.

This is quite a surprise. I took IS for granted since there was no vibration noise but it seems that it is quite useless with the scope. This doesn't bother me too much since I don't feel I really need it now that I have discovered the Digital Tele-Converter as a focusing aid. The scope on a solid tripod and 2X magnification seem a good match: no vibrations and adequate details for accurate focus. From now on, I'll keep IS OFF when using the scope.

Regards
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Old Saturday 8th March 2014, 13:40   #236
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The whole point of IS at half-press would be to help with focusing, but as you say, 2x is usually enough.
I think the IS system is simply not up to the demands placed on it by a 600mm lens. The "vibration" Olympus talks about on page 67 is for sure just the normal humming if the IS and not the strong shuddering I have experienced and as is visible in Tord's video. I have always felt that the key is getting the ISO up and thus the shutter speed, and as sensors progress, the need for IS will decrease.
The has been a LOT of discussion on the German Olympus thread about "shutter shock" and the E-M1 seems to be plagued with it quite badly. There are many factors involved in it, but i can't help but feel that one big factor is the nature of the E-M1's IBIS. The sensor is "suspended" in magnetic fields and it seems to me that would make it much more susceptible to vibration caused by the shutter than a fixed sensor.
The IS is a great help, but I have yet to see a picture with it that is a sharp as one without it, as long as the shutter speed is sufficient.

Off to the woods! Spring is here!!
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Old Saturday 8th March 2014, 14:33   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanC.Licks View Post
The whole point of IS at half-press would be to help with focusing, but as you say, 2x is usually enough.
I think the IS system is simply not up to the demands placed on it by a 600mm lens. The "vibration" Olympus talks about on page 67 is for sure just the normal humming if the IS and not the strong shuddering I have experienced and as is visible in Tord's video. I have always felt that the key is getting the ISO up and thus the shutter speed, and as sensors progress, the need for IS will decrease.
The has been a LOT of discussion on the German Olympus thread about "shutter shock" and the E-M1 seems to be plagued with it quite badly. There are many factors involved in it, but i can't help but feel that one big factor is the nature of the E-M1's IBIS. The sensor is "suspended" in magnetic fields and it seems to me that would make it much more susceptible to vibration caused by the shutter than a fixed sensor.
The IS is a great help, but I have yet to see a picture with it that is a sharp as one without it, as long as the shutter speed is sufficient.

Off to the woods! Spring is here!!
Since I purchased the SW80ED, I started to enjoy using a scope and my technique evolved quite a bit. I got the EM-1 late last fall and I haven't used it a lot with the scope, thanks to our Quebec winter. Spring is here for you, for us it will be here shortly... Also, I will be in Florida, a birding paradise, April 1-10.

The technique is simple, as far as I am concerned:
  • In bad light, stay home or use regular lenses.
  • A solid tripod is mandatory and I keep it as low as possible, kneeling most of the time, or even sitting down.
  • High shutter speed is also a necessity. I like to keep it above 1/500 s., and I like 1/1000 s. + even better. To achieve that, I don't mind cranking up ISO up to 3200. If the light is decent, noise can be corrected easily in LR and 6400 might also be ok if conditions require it, although I haven't tried it yet.
  • I tend not to use the 1.5X TN nor the 2X barlow anymore except when the bird is very far - also, the light must be very good. I think that cropping produces better results.
One special consideration for focusing. Since my eyes are getting older, I suspect that it makes accurate focusing difficult - my capacity to read small characters and my minimum focusing distance seem to vary according to light, the time of day eyestrain and my state of tiredness. The Magnify function I was using with the EM-5 is not very good: at a minimum of 5X introduces too much vibration. The Digital TC, at 2X, is much better. The tests I did yesterday lead me to believe that it is even better when combining Digital TC with Peaking - that way, accurate focus is not dependent on my eyesight.

Regards
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Old Saturday 8th March 2014, 19:36   #238
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I find the E-M1 borderline at 3200. The problem I have with focus peaking is that it makes the EVF flicker more than it does already. I find it hard on my eyes, but it does work.
Otherwise, all standard procedure...
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Old Saturday 8th March 2014, 21:25   #239
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My standard procedure.

Photograph no matter what the light.

Use a very cheap tripod with legs at full extension.

Go down to 1/24 s or less with up to 5X TC and don't lock up the axis.

A bit tongue in cheek and I must stress I've had a few beers but that's what I tended to do with my old Canon 450D at a max of ISO 800. I think when I get my new camera then anything will be possible. :-)

Paul.
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Old Sunday 9th March 2014, 06:40   #240
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I have gotten sharp pictures with the scope at 1/30 and had pleanty of smeared ones at 1/500 and some even as high as 1250. A lot of it is luck, but good techniqoe, (and less beer ) does help.
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Old Monday 10th March 2014, 09:05   #241
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The Magnify function I was using with the EM-5 is not very good: at a minimum of 5X introduces too much vibration. The Digital TC, at 2X, is much better. The tests I did yesterday lead me to believe that it is even better when combining Digital TC with Peaking - that way, accurate focus is not dependent on my eyesight.

Regards
Jules
Hi Jules,

I tried the digital TC function the past weekend on my EM-5 and although it indeeds magnifies 2x the final effect as presented to user in the viewfinder is a degradation compared to not using the TC. Yes, the image is magnified but the quality is worse ("pixelized").

Also tried in combination with the Art 11 filter (as subsitute for real focus peaking) but the precision is not good enough to be used in our application area.

Lastly the only button that can be assigned is F1, which is kind of hard to access and operate while operating the shutter release button.

So back to where I started - using the F2 button for 5X, works great in combination with engaging IS.

But thanks for the hints anyway.

/Tord
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Old Monday 10th March 2014, 09:27   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanC.Licks View Post
The whole point of IS at half-press would be to help with focusing, but as you say, 2x is usually enough.
I think the IS system is simply not up to the demands placed on it by a 600mm lens. The "vibration" Olympus talks about on page 67 is for sure just the normal humming if the IS and not the strong shuddering I have experienced and as is visible in Tord's video. I have always felt that the key is getting the ISO up and thus the shutter speed, and as sensors progress, the need for IS will decrease.
The has been a LOT of discussion on the German Olympus thread about "shutter shock" and the E-M1 seems to be plagued with it quite badly. There are many factors involved in it, but i can't help but feel that one big factor is the nature of the E-M1's IBIS. The sensor is "suspended" in magnetic fields and it seems to me that would make it much more susceptible to vibration caused by the shutter than a fixed sensor.
The IS is a great help, but I have yet to see a picture with it that is a sharp as one without it, as long as the shutter speed is sufficient.

Off to the woods! Spring is here!!
Hi,

This is another update on the IS subject.

Updated the EM5 to FW 2.0 and went out on a photo session, weather was nice though a bit windy.
  1. Started with the TL APO 80mm F/6. Set FL to 500. Used with tripod, floating head, also beanbag as well as some shots handheld. IS worked as it should, no vibrations, stabilized image in EVF/LCD.
  2. Next some longe range pictures with the TS 102mm F/7. Set FL to 800. Used with tripod, floating head. Vibrations started to appeared, followed by IS disengaging. Adjusted FL to 600, which helped a bit but still vibrations and disengaging IS. Set FL to 500, still some vibrations, IS disengaging sometimes, sometimes not.
  3. Next the SW 80mm F/7.5 (600mm). Set FL to 600. Tripod, floating head. No signs of vibrations, IS working as it should for 2 hours.
Taking out battery, changing batteries did not help. Did not reset the camera between change of scope.

Could it be that the weight/inertia plays an important role in how the IS performs? The TS102 + adapter & CNC rings weighs more than 6 kg, the TL 80 and SW 80 around 2.5 kg.

I will probably stick to using the E5 with the TS102 moving forward.

/Tord
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Old Monday 10th March 2014, 10:35   #243
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"Could it be that the weight/inertia plays an important role in how the IS performs?"
This is precicely what I have been saying all along!
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Old Monday 10th March 2014, 11:42   #244
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Hi Jules,

I tried the digital TC function the past weekend on my EM-5 and although it indeeds magnifies 2x the final effect as presented to user in the viewfinder is a degradation compared to not using the TC. Yes, the image is magnified but the quality is worse ("pixelized").

Also tried in combination with the Art 11 filter (as subsitute for real focus peaking) but the precision is not good enough to be used in our application area.

Lastly the only button that can be assigned is F1, which is kind of hard to access and operate while operating the shutter release button.

So back to where I started - using the F2 button for 5X, works great in combination with engaging IS.

But thanks for the hints anyway.

/Tord
Regarding the Digital TC, I'm not surprised you didn't like it because the EVF on the EM-5 is not as good as the one on the EM-1. The mock Peaking function is a pain... since you have to hold the Fn1 button. The buttons on the EM-1 behave differently: they toggle between ON and OFF so you don't have to hold them - big difference !
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Old Monday 10th March 2014, 13:48   #245
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It works very well as long as there is good light and the background is not too busy. That makes it hard to see. It seems accurate.
I have Fn2 set to 5x, Movie set to peeking, and Fn 1 to 2x TC. Everything I could want right there under the fingers.
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Old Monday 10th March 2014, 14:50   #246
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It works very well as long as there is good light and the background is not too busy. That makes it hard to see. It seems accurate.
I have Fn2 set to 5x, Movie set to peeking, and Fn 1 to 2x TC. Everything I could want right there under the fingers.
Since I often use Auto Focus with the 100-300mm lens, I use different settings for the buttons:
- Fn1 = MySet3

- Fn2 = AF Home (...)
- One Touch White Bal button (top front) = Digital Teleconverter

- Preview Button (Bottom Front) = Peaking

Fn1 instantly sets the camera for BIF with settings stored in MySet3:
- Mode: A
- f/8.0
- AF Mode = C-AF
- Metering: Spot
- S IS = OFF
- AF Area = 3X3
- Set Home: 3X3 Rec View = OFF

Fn2 = AF Home (...) is very important for Auto Focus to quickly bring back the focus box to center.
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Old Monday 10th March 2014, 14:59   #247
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I haven't even begun to look into the whole MySet business. Since I have had such bad luck with AF with my 50-200, I haven't thought about setting it up for BIF. NO chance of that!
My setup is specifically for the scope and other MF lernses.
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Old Monday 10th March 2014, 21:47   #248
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Digiscoping newbie question:

If the autofocus is in the camera body/house (and not in the objective ), is the image sensor moved back and forth trying to achieve focus ? If the scope is too much out of focus then the limitations of the movement of the image sensor may cause the image to not get into focus, it is not possible, what happens then...will the camera move the sensor back and forth while trying to focus, can it get into oscillations for a longer time then..until it finds focus ?

Anders
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Old Monday 10th March 2014, 21:57   #249
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Digiscoping newbie question:

If the autofocus is in the camera body/house (and not in the objective ), is the image sensor moved back and forth trying to achieve focus ? If the scope is too much out of focus then the limitations of the movement of the image sensor may cause the image to not get into focus, it is not possible, what happens then...will the camera move the sensor back and forth while trying to focus, can it get into oscillations for a longer time then..until it finds focus ?

Anders
Hej Anders,

The image stabilizer has nothing to do with auto-focus. It only mitigates the effect of blur caused by shaking (hand shake, wind, vibrations...)

The sensor is mounted "floating", that is, suspended in a magnetic field. The magnetic field controls the angle and position of the sensor in relation to the focal plane.
  • Angle: Yaw, pitch and rotation around the optical axis
  • Position: Horizontal and vertical shift
Check out here: http://asia.olympus-imaging.com/prod...m5/feature/04/
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Old Monday 10th March 2014, 22:29   #250
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Tord,

That was impressive, suspended in magnetic field !!

The OM-D's IS system helps you to focus on a subject, and because it is activated at the moment when the shutter button is half-way pressed*3, you can determine the photo composition while viewing a stabilized image.

Is the 5-axis IS connected to focus (the sixth axis) function in any way ?

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