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Old Saturday 1st February 2014, 20:59   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanC.Licks View Post
For the scope? No question. The E-M1 wins hands down! 10 times easier to use, quieter, less vibration, lighter, etc etc... and the slight disadvantage in DR and saturation can easily be dealt with in PP.

Off tomorrow for a week of skiing
When you get tired of the em-1 WITH that scope - you know my address.

;-)
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Old Saturday 1st February 2014, 21:06   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanC.Licks View Post
My T2 Canon adapter came today so I was able to do a quick test of the E-M1 and the 5DII on my scope. Here are the ISO 400 crops.

The results are consistent from 200 to 3200 ISO. I see slightly more detail in the E-M1 and slightly more punch in the 5DII. (I added a copy or the E-M1 file ("opt") with a little more saturation). No PP other than balancing the WB and exposure. No de-noise.

For the scope? No question. The E-M1 wins hands down! 10 times easier to use, quieter, less vibration, lighter, etc etc... and the slight disadvantage in DR and saturation can easily be dealt with in PP.

Off tomorrow for a week of skiing
Same when I switched from the 50D to the EM-5. Now, the EM-1 is even better. Contrast is definitely not a strong point but, as you say, it can be easily corrected. I will try to find time to flock the inside of the tubes this week. See my first photos in the Gallery thread.

Dan, have a good skiing holiday.
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Old Sunday 9th February 2014, 14:45   #203
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Back from a nice week of skiing. Very lucky with the snow! Total crap the day before we went, then it snowed and stayed just cold enough.

Check this out:
http://forum.fourthirdsphoto.com/dis...e-m1-wins.html

my latest test of the E-M1 against the Canon 5DII on my scope.
The E.M1 wins!
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Old Tuesday 11th February 2014, 17:02   #204
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Jules, have you used IS on the E-M1 with your scope? I still have those funny vibration problems. I wrote tOlympus about it and got this answer:
"Dear Mr. Bradley,

Thank you for your e-mail regarding our product.

We are sorry for the inconvenience this experience has caused you.

We unfortunately do not have any information about that
phenomenon on E-M1 adapting the third party telescope.

If the telescope is originally designed for OLYMPUS cameras
with Four Thirds sensor, your focal length setting "600mm"
should have been right for Image Stabilization.

We also try not to recommend all customers in Japan to use
third parties' accessories with no operational check by the
manufacturer.

We are also sorry that we are unable to give you any definite
comments without having your camera and lens for inspection."

At least they wrote.
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Old Tuesday 11th February 2014, 22:50   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanC.Licks View Post
Jules, have you used IS on the E-M1 with your scope? I still have those funny vibration problems. I wrote tOlympus about it and got this answer:
"Dear Mr. Bradley,

Thank you for your e-mail regarding our product.

We are sorry for the inconvenience this experience has caused you.

We unfortunately do not have any information about that
phenomenon on E-M1 adapting the third party telescope.

If the telescope is originally designed for OLYMPUS cameras
with Four Thirds sensor, your focal length setting "600mm"
should have been right for Image Stabilization.

We also try not to recommend all customers in Japan to use
third parties' accessories with no operational check by the
manufacturer.

We are also sorry that we are unable to give you any definite
comments without having your camera and lens for inspection."

At least they wrote.
Hi Dan,

I can't really comment on this. As I wrote before, I have learned how to work with the scope so that I don't use IS unless it is really needed because the vibrations are too severe.

Last Sunday, I shot photos of an ice canoe race and I focused using Focus Peaking. It works very well and I didn't see the need to magnify in order to focus accurately. It is also very fast.

Regards
Jules
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Old Wednesday 12th February 2014, 12:15   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanC.Licks View Post
Jules, have you used IS on the E-M1 with your scope? I still have those funny vibration problems. I wrote tOlympus about it and got this answer:
"Dear Mr. Bradley,

Thank you for your e-mail regarding our product.

We are sorry for the inconvenience this experience has caused you.

We unfortunately do not have any information about that
phenomenon on E-M1 adapting the third party telescope.

If the telescope is originally designed for OLYMPUS cameras
with Four Thirds sensor, your focal length setting "600mm"
should have been right for Image Stabilization.

We also try not to recommend all customers in Japan to use
third parties' accessories with no operational check by the
manufacturer.

We are also sorry that we are unable to give you any definite
comments without having your camera and lens for inspection."

At least they wrote.
This reminds me about the issues I have had with the EM-5 when using IS with long FL (600 and above). Eventually Olympus support mentioned back in Nov/Dec there was issues with the IBIS and mentioned a FW update might be issued, but so far nothing.

PS. Try a full reset by taking out the battery at waiting 24 hours and see if it helps. It did in my case, the vibrations disappeared.
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Old Wednesday 12th February 2014, 13:10   #207
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I had the battery out for over 24 hours yesterday and the day before. No change.
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Old Thursday 13th February 2014, 10:27   #208
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Took it out again last night and will leave it out until tomorrow morning. We'll see....
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Old Friday 14th February 2014, 10:06   #209
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Did a hardware reset through the service menu, same as leaving the battery out. No change. I have been in contact with a friend in New Zealand from the FourThirds Forum who does not get the vibration, but gets no benefit from the IS with his heavier Nikon 400/5.6 and Canon 400/5.6 lenses. On mine it works great, but it is considerably lighter than the older Nikkor 400/5.6.
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ISO 3200, 1/60! at f11 (forgot to open up the lens I was in such a hurry) IS1 on and set to 400mm.
With the IS running, there is a very clear "freezing" of the image in the VF. Works great, really great! On the scope, or with the 400+2xTC301, there is no change. Simply does not work.
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Old Saturday 15th February 2014, 10:12   #210
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Jules,
I don't know who is crazier, the guys in the boat or the guy in/on the helicopter!

So you haven't felt any of the funny vibrating in the body with IS on on your scope, is that right?
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Old Saturday 15th February 2014, 13:13   #211
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Originally Posted by DanC.Licks View Post
Jules,
I don't know who is crazier, the guys in the boat or the guy in/on the helicopter!

So you haven't felt any of the funny vibrating in the body with IS on on your scope, is that right?
Dan,

As I wrote, I used Focus Peaking for focusing. I had IS set to be ON on shutter half press but I was pressing the shutter quickly once focused, so I didn't notice any vibration. Same for my photos of the Great Grey Owl in the Gallery thread.

Now that I don't keep the TN on the scope by default, vibrations are much less of a problem and I don't see a need for IS to stabilize the image for accurate focusing.

I have the settings for scope use memorized in a MySet and I think I will modify it to have IS OFF by default.

Regards
Jules
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Old Saturday 1st March 2014, 10:59   #212
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See post #16 here:
http://forum.fourthirdsphoto.com/dis...-m1-issue.html
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Old Wednesday 5th March 2014, 14:41   #213
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Hi,

Although this discussion is about the EM-1 IS, I have a strong feeling it is related to / is a materialization of the issues I have experienced with the EM-5. As described in earlier posts on this forum and in the thread on Fourthirdsphoto that Dan started. (For some reason I am not able to comment on that thread although successful registration).

Here is a summary of the behavior I have experienced.
  • To start, when camera was new, the IS worked without issues. On my first EM-5 (that got stolen) I had no issues at all, over the course of 5 months. Worked fine on 600 - 1000mm focal lengths. On my second EM-5 the issues started after some 3-4 months and worsened over time. After Olympus exchanged the IS unit (recognized as faulty) the issues came back, shortly after receiving the camera from repair. Olympus workshop could not find any issue on the IS unit and did a reset of camera that cured the problem. Now, after 3-4 months the issue is back.
  • The longer focal length I enter in the settings, the more pronounced the vibrations are.
  • The breakpoint where I have failed in triggering the behavior with vibrations seems to be 300mm. The IS works without vibrations at all when setting <= 300mm. [Could it be the Olympus designed and tested the IS with the longest Zuiko lenses available (300mm)?]
  • The vibrations are there regardless of what lens I actually attach to the body. It does not matter if I use a scope, a long legacy lens, a short legacy lens, no lens at all... (the camera is unaware of the existence of legacy lens)
  • The vibrations are there regardless of if I use tripod, monopod or if handhold the camera.
  • I recently found that gently shaking the camera while engaging the IS (by half press of shutter release button) often prevents the ugly vibrations to take place, resulting in a stabilized image in the EVF. The success is a matter of how much you shake the camera - not too much, not too little. An amplitude of a cm and a frequancy of a few Hz is about right.
  • I have managed to get rid of the behavior by performing a "soft full reset", removing the battery for >24 hours time (as recommended by Olympus).
  • Olympus support mentioned in an email to me that there might be a FW issue causing the IS to malfunction with long lenses - which is in line with what I suspect. A 2.0 release of the EM-5 is apparently out, I will update the camera and see if it helps.

It could be that the EM-1 has inherited the IS design (and its flaws) from the EM-5.

Stay tuned...
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Old Wednesday 5th March 2014, 15:23   #214
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Hi,

Although this discussion is about the EM-1 IS, I have a strong feeling it is related to / is a materialization of the issues I have experienced with the EM-5. As described in earlier posts on this forum and in the thread on Fourthirdsphoto that Dan started. (For some reason I am not able to comment on that thread although successful registration).

Here is a summary of the behavior I have experienced.
  • To start, when camera was new, the IS worked without issues. On my first EM-5 (that got stolen) I had no issues at all, over the course of 5 months. Worked fine on 600 - 1000mm focal lengths. On my second EM-5 the issues started after some 3-4 months and worsened over time. After Olympus exchanged the IS unit (recognized as faulty) the issues came back, shortly after receiving the camera from repair. Olympus workshop could not find any issue on the IS unit and did a reset of camera that cured the problem. Now, after 3-4 months the issue is back.
  • The longer focal length I enter in the settings, the more pronounced the vibrations are.
  • The breakpoint where I have failed in triggering the behavior with vibrations seems to be 300mm. The IS works without vibrations at all when setting <= 300mm. [Could it be the Olympus designed and tested the IS with the longest Zuiko lenses available (300mm)?]
  • The vibrations are there regardless of what lens I actually attach to the body. It does not matter if I use a scope, a long legacy lens, a short legacy lens, no lens at all... (the camera is unaware of the existence of legacy lens)
  • The vibrations are there regardless of if I use tripod, monopod or if handhold the camera.
  • I recently found that gently shaking the camera while engaging the IS (by half press of shutter release button) often prevents the ugly vibrations to take place, resulting in a stabilized image in the EVF. The success is a matter of how much you shake the camera - not too much, not too little. An amplitude of a cm and a frequancy of a few Hz is about right.
  • I have managed to get rid of the behavior by performing a "soft full reset", removing the battery for >24 hours time (as recommended by Olympus).
  • Olympus support mentioned in an email to me that there might be a FW issue causing the IS to malfunction with long lenses - which is in line with what I suspect. A 2.0 release of the EM-5 is apparently out, I will update the camera and see if it helps.
It could be that the EM-1 has inherited the IS design (and its flaws) from the EM-5.

Stay tuned...
Tord,

It is unfortunate that you and Dan have problems with the Oly IS. My EM-5 didn't have this problem, nor does the new EM-1. They both behave similarly with the Panasonic 100-300mm or with the SW80ED:
  1. IS will sometimes vibrate slightly when activated for a long time. Olympus considers this as normal. Let's not forget this is a 5 axis floating IS.
  2. It works ok when activated for a short while to finalize manual focus in windy conditions where vibration is important.
  3. It always works correctly when pushing the shutter button slowly in a single push to avoid moving the camera. This seems to be enough to stabilize the image in windy conditions where vibration is present.
Considering this, I have changed the way I use IS. I used to focus using the Magnify function set at 5X. Now, I like to focus using the 2X Digital Teleconverter. I like it better that way because I find that 5X is way too much magnification and it causes excessive vibration in the EVF.

It is important to understand how the Digital Teleconverter works. When the camera is set to record JPEG, it crops the image by a factor of 2 and shows the cropped image in the EVF. A cropped JPEG is recorded. If your camera is set to record RAW (.ORF), the 2X cropped image will be shown in the EVF but THE IMAGE WILL NOT BE CROPPED when saved as a .ORF file. Using the Digital Teleconverter allows me to have just enough magnification to focus adequately while avoiding excessive vibration.

Here is how I use it: I focus using the Digital Teleconverter without activating IS. When the focus is OK, I press the shutter in one single smooth movement, activating IS to take the shot. I have also tried using Digital Teleconverter + Peaking or only Peaking with the same shutter activation technique and both work fine.

Setting the front buttons to those 2 functions makes handling easy and quick.
  • One Touch White Bal button (top front) = Digital Teleconverter
  • Preview Button (Bottom Front) = Peaking
Try it and let me know if it works for you.

Regards
Jules
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Old Wednesday 5th March 2014, 15:37   #215
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Hi Jules,

Thanks for hints, I follow. 2X magnification would definitely be useful, for instance when capturing BIF.

Now, I don't have any EM-1 (yet :) ) and the EM-5 lacks these features.

As I mentioned the IS on my first EM-5 worked perfectly, all the way until camera end of life. If I recall Carlos mentions in a post he has experienced vibrations sometimes on his EM-5 and that removing battery cured them. So there could be variations between individuals. I will also update the camera to FW 2.0 (although the 2.0 release notes do not mention anything related to IS improvements, but release notes are not always complete/exhaustive).

Thanks,
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Old Wednesday 5th March 2014, 16:00   #216
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If I remember well, there is a Digital Teleconverter function on the EM-5.
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Old Wednesday 5th March 2014, 18:25   #217
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Spent a bit over an hour with the scope and the E-M1 in the woods this afternoon. Very mixed feelings about the EVF. When I got something in the frame it was nice, but scope movement and/or subject movement ended up giving me a headache! It flickers just too much with such long lenses. The refresh rate is just too low. When the light was good, it was more or less OK, but as soon as I zoomed in (2x or 5x) the flickering made it very hard to see anything.
At one point I tried tracking a buzzard overhead, something I did all the time with the D7000. MUCH harder with the EVF. I hope I will be able to get used to it. Not giving up yet. I really like so many things about it.
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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 08:14   #218
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Took it out again last night and will leave it out until tomorrow morning. We'll see....
Did it cure it?
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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 08:22   #219
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...
Very mixed feelings about the EVF. When I got something in the frame it was nice, but scope movement and/or subject movement ended up giving me a headache! It flickers just too much with such long lenses.
...
Agree, without IS engaged it is difficult to use the EVF with 5X magnification. When not having the IS engaged I instead use the LCD + touch, but this works only when the subject is more or less static. I also found that activating higher frame rate in the EVF helps a bit in assessing the sharpness in the EVF.
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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 09:28   #220
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No, nothing has cured it. I have spent MANY hours testing and writing various forums, (or is it fora?). E-M1 IS is useless on the scope.
It seems to be a combination of weight and focal length setting. For instance:
No IS, 8 (8 sharp out of 10 shots at 1/400)
IS on, 1
IS on, with IS set to half-press, (and waiting until the vibration stops) 3-4
700g weight (old pan/tilt head) screwed onto the camera:
IS off 0!!!! (What a surprise THAT was!!)
IS on 5
IS on with half-press 6
Old Sigma 500 mirror, no vibration and IS works.
Same with weight, vibrates and no IS
Nikkor 400 works great with and without weight, but with 2x TC301 and set to 800, vibrates and no IS. Set to 600, no vibration and IS works not bad.
Scope, IS set to about 200mm, no vibration and very light IS function. Above 200mm, vibration and no IS.
So, if it vibrates, the IS stops all together. Maybe it is a protective thing built in.
My conclusion is that the IS is only really good up to about 400mm with light weight lenses. After that, forget it. Oh well, not every car that has 280 k/h printed on the speedometer actually goes 280!
When I wrote to Oly, they told me they can only grantee the IS to work with Oly lenses. But they only make up to 300mm! To me, that is BS!

Last edited by DanC.Licks : Thursday 6th March 2014 at 09:30.
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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 09:35   #221
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If I remember well, there is a Digital Teleconverter function on the EM-5.
Hi Jules,

I cannot remember seeing such a feature. I searched through the PDF manual and the only reference to 2X is when playing back/reviewing pictures on the LCD.
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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 12:30   #222
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Hi Jules,

I cannot remember seeing such a feature. I searched through the PDF manual and the only reference to 2X is when playing back/reviewing pictures on the LCD.
Shooting menu 1 - Manual page 64. I never used it when I had the EM-5 so I don't know if it behaves like the one on the EM-1.
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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 12:40   #223
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I'm really sorry to read about the problems you guys have with IS. It works quite well for me when I use it as described in the above post. Have you tried it exactly my way ?

Settings I forgot to mention: I set it to 600mm and to be ON on shutter half-press.
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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 14:02   #224
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Jules,
I have tried EVERYTHING! Are you sure the IS is working? Do you actually SEE it stabilizing the image or do you just hear it? I just hear it, but there is no stabilization whatsoever.

I agree completely about the 2x magnification. It is enough.

Keep in mind though, that half-press=on eats juice like mad!

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Old Thursday 6th March 2014, 14:27   #225
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@ Dan: I removed the battery and put it back after 3-4 days and that cured the IS.

@ Jules: regarding the operational method you suggest, once the IS has entered its "vibration mode" it is not possible to use it since it won't stabilize the image at all. Either the IS does not engage at all, or as soon as you half-press the shutter button the camera vibrates for a second or so, the image in the EVF is heavily blurred and the IS disengages after a second or so. (Refer to the video I uploaded on Youtube .)

Anyway, I have been thinking of the IBIS malfunction and what may be behind it. Looking at how it behaves on Dan's lens collection could it be that weight has an effect? Weight means inertia that in turn should have an impact on the amplitude and frequency of the vibrations. Could it be that the IS is designed/optimized for lenses which weight is within the range of the Zuiko lenses that Olympus have tested?

Since removing the battery and provoking a reset does cure the IS, in some way data/parameter(s) that are saved between sessions get reset to default values. Somehow these parameters are given bad/out of bound values while operating the camera with long focal length heavy lens. The use of tripod may also have impact since in effect tilt, yaw and rotation are virtually zero, only translation movements take place.

Once the symptoms start to appear it is just a matter of time before the IS becomes dysfunctional. The symptoms appear initially as gentle vibrations and humming when engaging the IS, these vibrations vanish after a fraction of a second and the IS renders a stabilized image. With time (matter of days), these vibrations will amplify and the IS does not always engage properly. Setting a shorter focal length mitigates the symptom and "buys you time", but eventually it won't help. (The IS effect diminishes as you set incorrect/shorter focal length, but still better than no IS).

I recently found that gently shaking the camera on the tripod (amplitude something like a cm, frequency a few Hz) while half pressing the shutter button may cause the IS to engage as it should - but that is not really practical in field conditions. Now I remove the battery as soon as possible after the first symptoms appear.

There seems to be some random pattern in how long the IS stays healthy.
  • On my first EM5, IS worked perfectly for > 5 months
  • On next EM5, IS worked about two months. Olympus replaced the IS.
  • The replaced IS worked less than one day. Olympus found no fault on the IS and reset the camera to factory settings, IS worked as it should.
  • Factory reset camera IS worked 3 months . Removed battery cured it.
  • Reset camera IS worked 2 weeks (I took many photos, though). Removed battery cured it (this is where I am today)

I checked the 2.0 FW release notes but there is nothing mentioned about IS issues corrected. Will update the camera FW prior to next photo session.

/Tord
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