8x42 Advice & Recommendations (1 Viewer)

Dear all,

I am looking for a good 8-8.5 x 36-44 binocular. I use them not only for bird-watching (I'm quite new at this) but also for very all-round use, including boating, hiking, etc.

Important criteria for me: roof prism, price $175-$300, weight < 750g (the lighter the better), waterproof, eye-relief acceptable for eyeglass wearer, a reasonably wide field of view, decent close focus ability, good optical performance, and well-constructed.

I currently have a Nikon Monarch 8x42 ATBs (pre-dielectric coating). I have been very happy with the Monarch (previous experience was with absolute garbage...typical <$50 porro prisms your average joe buys on a whim), but when I started to investigate buying a binocular for my uncle, I read some comments that lead me to believe that I might appreciate a larger field of view than the Monarch offers (which is apparently relatively limited). This opened up a can of worms, so to speak, and now I am considering whether I should buy two binoculars of a different make/model!

Here are some models that seem to be potentially interesting. I'd really love to hear any observations, ideally from people with relevant experience:

- Nikon Monarch 8x42 ATB, with dielectric coating: I'll keep this on the list as the benchmark. The real question is: Given my criteria above, is there anything better.

- Pentax DCF CS 8x42: On paper, it looks like the front-runner. Not much in the way of on-line reviews and comparisons though.
- Vortex Diamondback 8x42: Seems equal to or better than the Pentax.
- Bushnell Excursion EX 8x42: Close to the Pentax - but some concern over the eye relief.
- Bushnell 8x42 Legend Ultra HD: Same comments as the Excursion apply.
- Nikon Monarch 8x36 ATB: This one is a wild-card. It seems somewhat appealing to me due to the slightly wider FOV and the size and weight.
- Carson 8x42 XM-HD: Don't know much at all about this binocular or manufacturer. Field of view does not seem to be superior to the Monarch.
- Olympus Magellan EXWP I 8x42? Don't know anything about it, but it also seems to have potential.
- Anything else?!?

I'm open-minded. I don't care what the brand is, particularly...just the best binocular for the application.within the price range.

Kind regards,

JoeBobb

Joebobb,

Check out these:

http://www.knivesandtools.com/en/ct/eden-quality-verrekijkers.htm


I've had a pair of 8x42 ED's which were very nice optically, but the diopter broke after one week's use. Now, surprisingly, Knivesandtools sent me a PM to test their new range XP's, with diopter placed on the right ocular, and I've agreed to test the XP's.

Also, the cheaper HD-range gets a good review in the Equipment section:

http://www.birdforum.net/reviews/showproduct.php/product/339/limit/recent

I'm looking forward to test the XP's, and if all goes well, will share my experience on this forum.

Best regards,

Ronald

Focus is on binoculars in the US market

Thanks for your comment, Ronald, but although I may be living in Berlin, I will buy the binoculars in the US...so my interest is in brands that are commercially available in the US.

Kind regards,

JoeBobb

I would certainly consider one of the Swifts--probably the 828 Audubon if you want a roof prism. 23+ ounces, 8.5x44, 19mm eye relief, compact, nice bright optics. But it is a bit above your price range.

Martin

Out of your list the Bushnell Legend Ultra EDs in either the 42 or 36 mm model. Beyond that the Zen Ray ED 8x43s are $251.

Monarchs are still OK. Skip the Bushnell Excursion EX 8x42, don't know the last 2.

Who sells the Zen Ray 8x42s?

Hello Frank,

You said...

FrankD said:

Out of your list the Bushnell Legend Ultra EDs in either the 42 or 36 mm model. Beyond that the Zen Ray ED 8x43s are $251.

Click to expand...

and I did some on-line searching, but I found only one vendor of the Zen Ray 8x42s (an archery related site) aside from Zen Ray itself. In both cases the ED2 8x43s are priced well north of $300. Could you tell me where you've seen these at the price you mentioned?

As an aside, it seems that the Zen Ray 8x42 ZRS HD performs on par or better than the Monarch and is actually cheaper...so maybe this is the optimal choice?

Kind regards,

JoeBobb

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics2/zenray.pl?page=zenray-zened0843

JoeBobb are you from the south side of Berlin?

South Side of Berlin?!?

Hi Steve,

mooreorless said:

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics2/zenray.pl?page=zenray-zened0843

JoeBobb are you from the south side of Berlin?

Click to expand...

Hmmm...is this a trick question? I think the answer is 'no'...unless there's some interpretation I'm missing.

Regarding these Zen Ray ED binoculars: The eye relief seems very short at 16.8mm...even less than the Bushnell Legend's at 17mm. As an eyeglass wearer, this seems a cause for concern, although there doesn't seem to be much negative buzz in this regard for the Zen Rays. This strikes me as somewhat odd, since there is a fair amount of discussion RE: eye relief and the Bushnells. As an aside, I just looked through my Monarchs with and without glasses, to see how I perceived their eye relief. I found that the edge of the binoculars' optical field of view was JUST outside my actual field of view with my glasses touching the screwed down eye cups. Without glasses and with the eye cups screwed out, the entire field of view of the binoculars was visible. Having said that, I suppose that I might have a larger, actual field of view with a binocular with a larger optical field of view, even though the eye relief might be less (meaning that there would be some loss of field of view due to the relative position of my eyes). I suppose it's a question of balancing various factors to arrive at an optimal compromise...

Second question about the Zen Ray EDs...what does one lose compared to the ED2? What does one gain compared to the Zen Ray ZRS?

Kind regards,

JoeBobb

Hi JoeBobb, In the US in the south there are a some people with names like Jim-Bob, Billie-Bob etc., just my poor try at a joke.B

Some people have complained of too much ER on the Bushnell 8x42 HD Legends and I think most people that wear glasses had no problem with the Legends. Bushnell will buy back the HD Legends if you are not satisfied over here.

I don't know about the ZenRay differences.

Hi Steve,

Actually, I had a feeling it was a play on my name. Actually, my real name isn't JoeBobb, but I use it at various forums so I've adapted to it...and yeah, originally it's a light-hearted take on the Southern yokel stereotype. I'm a 6th generation Floridian descended from a mess of Confederates and a few Revolutionary War combatants and I love the South like any decent man loves his homeland (while appreciating it's genuine shortcomings), so I can take light of Southern jokes when they're made in good spirit.

Something I don't really understand here...if the Bushnells have 17mm eye relief, and the other binoculars like the Nikons, Pentax, Carsons, Olympus', etc have from 19 to 21mm, how can it be that the Bushnell has too much eye relief?!?!? Wouldn't these others then be absolutely miserable? My understanding of eye relief (and 'm pretty sure it's correct) is that it is the maximal distance from the back of the ocular to the eye at which one can still see the entire field of view. Meaning that a binocular with a lower eye relief will require that the user's eye is closer to the ocular lens. This can be a problem for eye glass wearers, since the glasses themselves sit a certain distance away from the eye. Thus, if the distance from the eye to the glasses exceeds the eye relief, the eyeglass wearer will have problems seeing the entire field of view of the binoculars. I suppose one's eye can be too close to the ocular, at which point the eyelids become the limiting factor to the field of view. However, this problem can be easily dealt with (just pull the binoculars further away from your face); whereas the other problem (too little eye relief) cannot be resolved (because it is caused by physical contact).

Is this a correct analysis?

Kind regards,

JoeBobb...the Southerner in Berlin

Hello JoeBobb,

I think that the question of eye relief and the user is a bit more complicated than many people think. For instance, I am so near sighted, that I see a wider field with my specs on than with them off. There is also a question of useful eye relief, as some eyepieces have rims of varying depths, which is not a bad thing, as some specs can scratch the eyepiece. I am of the opinion that only by trying a binocular, can you determine if the eye relief is appropriate. Therefore either purchase in person or use a vendor with a liberal returns policy.

As far as I know the major optical difference between the Zend ED and the ED2 is the use of a dielectric mirror, which improved colour rendition.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

I will leave the comments about eye relief to the folks that seem more sensitive to it. Because of my facial dimensions I require almost all of my bins to have the eyecups fully collapsed in order to see the full field of view. Only with extremely small diameter eyecupes do I need to actually extend them from the fully collapsed position.

Beyond the optical difference previously mentioned for the ED vs ED2 comparison the ED2s also have a faster focus by about 3/4 of a turn from what I remember.

JoeBobb, Yes that was meant in light humor and in good spirit. I have all the respect in the world for people from the South. I had a feeling you were from the U.S.A. and the South.

usable eye relief is indeed the relevant factor. This is usually 3 or so mm shorter than the advertised eye relief, but it may be even shorter depending upon the design of the binoculars. I have a pair of Minox with 16 mm of advertised eye relief. I can't see nearly the entire field. My Audubons are advertised to have 19 mm and I see everything. Another pair, Celestron Ultimas, are said to have 22 mm and the eye relief is too long for comfort. One seller, christophers, usually specifies the "usable" eye relief on their website. But the only way to be sure is to try them.

Martin

Current Provisional Ranking of 8x42 Binoculars

Hi all,

Thanks to everyone for the comments thus far...on or off topic!

Attached (I hope) is a .GIF image of a spreadsheet I've created with the various important criteria of the various models that I have found interesting listed. I have also provisionally ranked them.

What I intend to do, if possible, is to try some out locally; to decide if I like them or not. Ideally, when I'm on my way back to the 'States for a visit, I'll order the top 2 or 3 models and try them out. I'll choose my favorite and I'll choose another for my uncle based on what I perceive as his needs. If it turns out that there is one model that is ideal for us both, I'll send the other two back and order a second one of that model for him. Finally, I'll bring my choice back to Berlin with me and do a head-to-head against my Monarchs. The loser will be eBayed!

I don't claim to be a professional by any means, but I'll post the results of my comparisons here. Bear in mind that I won't be back 'Stateside until October, so it'll be a while before this process comes to a conclusion.

Of course, if anyone still has comments about my ranking, I'm all ears (this is just provisional at this time; pending further information and some hand's on testing).

Some comments about my choices...

1) Zen Ray Summit ZRS HD: Seems to be a winner in all categories except for eye relief. I need to test this bugger to see if it is a problem for me or not.
2) Bushnell Legend Ultra HD: Same comments apply.
3) Vortex Diamondback: A strong contender, except for the size and weight. Eye relief still on the low side too.
4) Pentax DCF CS: Seems to be the middle of the road binocular here. If the eye relief of the current top three proves to be a problem, this one would be #1, with the most eye relief of them all. Top three models are currently all magnesium bodies, while this one is PC.
5) Nikon Monarch ATB: Also pretty middle of the road. Slightly lighter than the Pentax, but also more expensive and lacking the wide field of view. It is the lightest binocular in the test.
6) Minox BV: Can't find a lot of information about this binocular out there. Seems to be on par with the Vortex (from pure specifications), but it is considerably heavier than the Monarch and also the most expensive. Looks damn sexy though. I can picture 007 glassing the arch-villain's compound from a beach bar on the far shore with these, while some comely double-agent he just seduced fetches him a martini.
7) Olympus EXWP I Magellan: Spec wise, it seems to be one of the weakest. It is also middle of the road in terms of size and weight, and at the higher end in terms of price. Close-focusing distance and field of view look unimpressive.
8) Carson 3D: About the same as the Olympus, but with a slight price and size advantage.

Kind regards,

JoeBobb

I don't see an issue with the ranking order you have listed for those models. I did not see the ZR 8x43 ED listed in your group though. For the $249.99 that cameralandny has them on sale for right now they are a steal and will beat any of the others optically.

Another that you may consider, which has not already been mentioned, is the Theron Optics Wapiti HQ. 17 mm of eye relief, field flatteners in the eyepiece, a 367 foot field of view and priced at $250.

http://theronoptics.com/WAPITI_HQ_BINOCULARS.html

Also, if you want more info on the Minox models then I would suggest 24hourcampfire. Minox has a big following on there.

Zen Ray ED and Theron Wapiti

FrankD said:

I don't see an issue with the ranking order you have listed for those models. I did not see the ZR 8x43 ED listed in your group though. For the $249.99 that cameralandny has them on sale for right now they are a steal and will beat any of the others optically.

Another that you may consider, which has not already been mentioned, is the Theron Optics Wapiti HQ. 17 mm of eye relief, field flatteners in the eyepiece, a 367 foot field of view and priced at $250.

http://theronoptics.com/WAPITI_HQ_BINOCULARS.html

Also, if you want more info on the Minox models then I would suggest 24hourcampfire. Minox has a big following on there.

Click to expand...

It's tough just to figure out what all the options are! Seems like there's a new company selling mid-range 8x42ish binoculars every day.

I left the EDs out because I won't be buying the binoculars until late October, and I'd be surprised if there are still examples of this model for sale at that time. They're also heavier and have the shortest eye relief of any binocular I've researched so far; although to be fair they are about the same weight as the Minox BV. I didn't consider the Theron because I wasn't aware of it until now! Looks like something to consider...

One comment though (upon editing my post): Although paying too much for a brand name is not advisable, I think that, optical quality and performance being equal, it's worth paying a certain premium for binoculars made by a company that has been around for a while...and that will probably be around for a while. This is especially the case if you think you might need repair service at some point in the useful life of the binoculars (which, if well cared for, should be measured in decades, I'd think) - or if you might want to resell them at some point.

With the possible exception of the weight (27 ounces) the Minox looks to meet all your values admirably. I have one of the Minox BVs and the build quality is really impressive. But I would think that the Minox, being it is a German company, would be available locally.

Martin

Nice graph, Joebobb!

As a practical matter you probably won't see much difference in the FOV's of binoculars with an 8 degree field and a 7.5 degree fields. That would work out to be about 3 feet at 100 yards and 1 foot at 100 feet. If you wear eye glasses it will depend on how the eye cups affect the view with the glasses on so you will have to try them out. The percentage of the center of the FOV that is sharp is probably more important than the overall FOV. Again, that would require trying them out.

I have a friend who uses the Pentax and he wears glasses and he is pleased with it.

Bob