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gulls (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter lou salomon
- Start date
JANJ
Well-known member
lou salomon
the birdonist
indeed little gulls. not so interesting in this case and thanks tp peter who obviously saw what i also saw in the first moment. and i remember having photoed a 2cy little gull with similarly subdued and bleached upperwing pattern. head also looks 'cute'. unfortunately i have no own pics on this calculator but watch this similar bird: http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=11606
oh no - jan linked absolutely the same pic
(while i searched for it)
as addition, now from my own computer the own pic o
cheers B
oh no - jan linked absolutely the same pic
(while i searched for it)as addition, now from my own computer the own pic o
cheers B
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lou salomon
the birdonist
i would be most gladfull about the red-necked phalaropes, females in alternate plumage are just wonderful.:-O
sparing some space on this (my) 99th page. just came back across this case of a dark cachinnans, and that's what i personally think it is:
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=37824
regarding jan's comment there about the pale spots on outer webs as being poss. a sign for herring gull blood and some other traits mentioned by Flemming (last post) as darkness of underwing, all marked uppertail and smudge around eye - well,
in my opinion there are enough examples of dark cachis with strongly marked bases of rectrices etc. all in the danish bird says caspian gull. although to settle it as definite ID, with the knowledge that poland is not far...
but have a look at the early autumn birds from danube delta again:
http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=291&start=10#p1398
or here from 2. september on: http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_grp.php?g=cachinnans 1cy
sparing some space on this (my) 99th page. just came back across this case of a dark cachinnans, and that's what i personally think it is:
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=37824
regarding jan's comment there about the pale spots on outer webs as being poss. a sign for herring gull blood and some other traits mentioned by Flemming (last post) as darkness of underwing, all marked uppertail and smudge around eye - well,
in my opinion there are enough examples of dark cachis with strongly marked bases of rectrices etc. all in the danish bird says caspian gull. although to settle it as definite ID, with the knowledge that poland is not far...
but have a look at the early autumn birds from danube delta again:
http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=291&start=10#p1398
or here from 2. september on: http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_grp.php?g=cachinnans 1cy
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lou salomon
the birdonist
yes, apart from ichtyaetus, all other look good for cachinnans. still, 2cy summer often are just a guesswork since they look so messy in their old plumage. the adult bird has pale irides and quite a large amount of black in wingtip for this sp., still, large p9 mirror and long ventral p10 tongue make it the default species for the azovs - pontic gull. do you have more pics?
lou salomon
the birdonist
thanks aleksey,
in any case it's interesting to compare these from azov sea to the birds i photogr. in the danube delta. they don't differ in that they tend to have a more filigrane 2nd generation covert pattern than michahellis (see first pic in your last post, a male) and can be fairly well marked on underwing like this http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=332786&d=1309080345.
in any case it's interesting to compare these from azov sea to the birds i photogr. in the danube delta. they don't differ in that they tend to have a more filigrane 2nd generation covert pattern than michahellis (see first pic in your last post, a male) and can be fairly well marked on underwing like this http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=332786&d=1309080345.
lou salomon
the birdonist
definitely mich. i think herring gulls are quite rare and only during winter in the western mediterranean.
tittletattler
Well-known member
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Yes
lou salomon
the birdonist
...a 2cy (1st summer) in front of a juvenile.
Jane Turner
Well-known member
Not the kind of photo that is going to help much
but had this bird
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=339643&d=1312296894
In the week. It was very long winged and slightly darker mantled than argenteus... long & slender greenish yellow bill, very small black eye dead flesh legs (hint of yellow)... I called it as a Casp then lost confidence - based on the body shape and lack of leg length - both distinctly Herring Gull like. Ihave it logged as a possible Herring x Casp
but had this bird
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=339643&d=1312296894
In the week. It was very long winged and slightly darker mantled than argenteus... long & slender greenish yellow bill, very small black eye dead flesh legs (hint of yellow)... I called it as a Casp then lost confidence - based on the body shape and lack of leg length - both distinctly Herring Gull like. Ihave it logged as a possible Herring x Casp
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lou salomon
the birdonist
hi jane!
can't get a grip about head and bill shape. but if we have a 3cy (beginning of 3rd cycle now), the all dark ventral side of p10 (right wing) would favour michahellis, caspians usually have a small but clear pale tongue in 2nd gen. p10, YLG not.
did p10 have a smallish mirror? p10 would be 2nd gen. and usually very worn, so a small p10 mirror could well be overlooked or being abraded. this is about the age class of your bird:
http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_grp....er&PHPSESSID=6c53ad17497c84b40b012d90fbc92672, but it could well be a yellow-legged gull with dull bare parts.
dark markings seem to be contrasting but that might be part of the effect of strong upblowing (or is it digiscoped?).
but can we exclude a 4cy (beginning of 4th cycle) dark eyed argentatus? you said bodey shape was more like HG? http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg4cy/ca444jul.htm
so, little help but maybe some info.
can't get a grip about head and bill shape. but if we have a 3cy (beginning of 3rd cycle now), the all dark ventral side of p10 (right wing) would favour michahellis, caspians usually have a small but clear pale tongue in 2nd gen. p10, YLG not.
did p10 have a smallish mirror? p10 would be 2nd gen. and usually very worn, so a small p10 mirror could well be overlooked or being abraded. this is about the age class of your bird:
http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/m_grp....er&PHPSESSID=6c53ad17497c84b40b012d90fbc92672, but it could well be a yellow-legged gull with dull bare parts.
dark markings seem to be contrasting but that might be part of the effect of strong upblowing (or is it digiscoped?).
but can we exclude a 4cy (beginning of 4th cycle) dark eyed argentatus? you said bodey shape was more like HG? http://www.gull-research.org/hg/hg4cy/ca444jul.htm
so, little help but maybe some info.
Jane Turner
Well-known member
The head and bill shape was as good for Casp as you could possibly imagine. Couldn't see anything on p10, but it only showed it briefly. I've not got round to looking for it again!
Looked like this one facially
http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/pic/vh/up_0118.jpg
Here is my other pic of it - on the left - showing its small head from behind.
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=339644&d=1312296903
Looked like this one facially
http://lou.bertalan.de/gulls/pic/vh/up_0118.jpg
Here is my other pic of it - on the left - showing its small head from behind.
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=339644&d=1312296903
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lou salomon
the birdonist
well, with a long, not high bill that has a pointed tip and a weak gonys the chances for cachinanns are good. plumagewise certainly possible of what i can see. subadult large gulls are hellish with all the variations possible even in structure and you will prob. never know what it was but merely the probablilty of a caspian or a casp/herring hybrid.
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