Zeiss Binocular Quality (1 Viewer)

Does anyone else feel Zeiss's quality is really superior? I own Zeiss, Leica and Nikon binoculars. To me the Zeiss have been the best.

Why?

- Armor holds up
- Fit and finish are great
- No coatings peeling off
- No internal dust

I was thinking this today as my Leicas have internal coatings peeling, and my Nikon hinge is getting loose.

Your thoughts? :smoke:

nope. All three are bad. Well, that is to say: the top-of-the-line in Swaro, Zeiss and Leica have flaws, especially the rubber: I have seen Leica Ultravid, Swaro EL and even Swarovision with rubber peeling off. But my own Zeiss now has the same problem and I have to send it back. I will see if they treat it as warranty or not.
In my Zeiss, I can see very small dust particles inside. They don't hamper me and I do not want them to be removed, as I don't see them and the image is very sharp, bright etc.

So no, Zeiss is nothing better, and I would say that the previous generation of dialyts, and the Leica Trinovid and Swaro SLC were mechanically much better build. I do hope, however, that the new trinovid, new SLC and the new Conquest/HT combine a lower weight, better optics and AS good build quality.

I have had my Zeiss FLs for 8 years. During this time they have been baked in France and near frozen in Scotland. They have been laid on by me hundreds of times when I have got down and dirty to take close up photos of flowers. Sometimes they were lucky enough to get tucked into my jacket, sometimes not. They have endured hours of salt spray when we have searched rock pools next to the sea for inter-tidal sea creatures, and yes I have laid on top of them amongst sea-weed to take photos too. They have been sand-blasted as we walked across wind-scoured machair (a special habitat in Scotland) dozens of times. Scotland's infamously unpredictable weather has poured rain on them for hours and hours as we have stood on ferry boats or trudged over moors. In France they have got nearly too hot to touch as we have made our way across baking causses.

And yet the FLs are unmarked, the rubber armour is secure,they have never fogged-up, there are no specks of anything inside and no scratches in the coatings.

I'm not saying a Leica couldn't do this and I'll bet there are Red-Dotters who could tell similar stories. I'm just saying that my personal experience of giving a pair of Zeiss bins hell over 8 years has resulted in zero defects.

Lee

I have SW, Zeiss, Leica, Fujinon, Miyauchi-cannot tell any difference in high quality

edj

Hi Troubador,

I have had almost the same experiences with my FL, bought in 2004, pre locu-tec of course. Here in Patagonia the climate is as hard on things as is in the Scotland. Mine has survived all without any problem. It is almost as new!!! The same can be said of my Swarovski Habicht 10x40 W GA. Of the same age and used in the same environment. Not a single grain of dust or condensation inside. And as tight as when new!!!

Good luck!

PHA

I must add that I had some doubts about the body thoughness being made of some sort of polymer...But until now no problem!!! And the colimation is perfect as when new.

Same experience with my FL's, more than 2 years with them, probably several thousand hours of use - bushwhacking, fieldwork, hot, cold, snow, rain.

I could still sell them as mint, all but the strap that is, showing some fraying.

That said, my friend had a pair that lost both end hinge caps and his oculars had big scratches, but he is really hard on bins - tends to clean them with his shirttail...

I have a few older Zeiss, from 25 to 40 years, and all look like they came fresh from the factory, inside clean, smooth focus, everything works like new. Especially the Night Owl series, they seem to be built of a single piece - and would probably be able to handle a few miles of dragging from the back of a car.

"and would probably be able to handle a few miles of dragging from the back of a car" .

James is this one of your gestures of backwoodsman hospitality............?

LOL

Lee

Troubador said:

"and would probably be able to handle a few miles of dragging from the back of a car" .

James is this one of your gestures of backwoodsman hospitality............?

LOL

Lee

Click to expand...

well...........if my wife can handle it, why not the Zeiss?

My experience of modern Zeiss west is limited, but I was disappointed with a used 10 x 40 Dialyte leather clad bought from a good shop.
The star images were poor probably from a non expert recollimation, also the binocular is tatty.
Another later 10 x 40 was a lot worse.
Similarly a 10 x 40 Swarovski porroprism old has messy star images.
A 7 x 42 Swarovski porro was awful. Abused but I got it at a knock down price from a good optics shop and overhauled by a good professional so it is useable, the colours are quite different in each barrel as one objective is almost devoid of coating, the other nearly intact.
And the story goes on with even older Zeiss etc.

So, in my experience even the best binoculars can and are thoroughly abused by people who simply don't know how to treat optics.

My heavily used film cameras were sent for servicing and the manufacturers were amazed that they looked cosmetically like new after 15 years heavy use.
They were always in every ready cases but could be in use in 2 seconds or less.

So, people who love optics can have very old binoculars heavily used but as new, but if you buy secondhand there are some dreadful top quality binoculars around.

With toys the makers give them to kids to conduct destructive testing.
With binoculars they need to give them to these optics destroyers so they can make them more reliable, but whatever you do some people will destroy even the best binocular.
Luckily I have found some old gems as well, really lovingly looked after.

Troubador said:

I have had my Zeiss FLs for 8 years......And yet the FLs are unmarked, the rubber armour is secure,......I'm just saying that my personal experience of giving a pair of Zeiss bins hell over 8 years has resulted in zero defects.

Lee

Click to expand...

My 8x42 FLs can't brag with such a spotless record. I have had them for a bit over 7 years, and the rubber had to be replaced because it developed bulges in the area where I place my thumb. Actually, it was on one side only for a long time. And it even felt like some padding at first. So I kept them like that for about two or so years. Only when more parts became loose did I send them in. At that time, I also had problems with a hinge cover coming off. But I had a similar problem much earlier. At first, some glue did the trick though.

A rather strange and somewhat irritating problem concerns the diopter. On rare occasions it seems to go out of its position, seemingly without me having touched it. Then, after playing around with it a little, it is OK and seems not to show any signs that something might be wrong. It gets to the point where I doubt my eyes. Fortunately this has only happened about three or four times over the years. With this, it's probably futile to have someone check it. So I did not mention anything on the occasion of the replacement of the rubber cover.

One would certainly hope that problems occur less frequently at the alpha level, after all, part of what you're paying for is "quality" and what is "quality"?

Let's go to the business dictionary:

Quality -- Definition

In manufacturing, a measure of excellence or a state of being free from defects, deficiencies and significant variations. It is brought about by strict and consistent commitment to certain standards that achieve uniformity of a product in order to satisfy specific customer or user requirements.

ISO 8402-1986 standard defines quality as "the totality of features and characteristics of a product or service that bears its ability to satisfy stated or implied needs." If an automobile company finds a defect in one of their cars and makes a product recall, customer reliability and therefore production will decrease because trust will be lost in the car's quality.

In reality, there are slip ups with all brands, even with Zeiss, as pointed out above. Here's another customer's story:

Zeiss quality and performance are legendary, so it was with confidence and enthusiasm that I purchased a pair of Zeiss Victory FL 8x42 binoculars. On the first outing the right-side "adaptive lockable eyecup" malfunctioned in its plastic track, so that the two eyepieces could not be adjusted uniformly. The quick fix shown in the owner's manual failed to remedy the...

Read full review (it gets worse):

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1ETH6NIB98XU0/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R1ETH6NIB98XU0

It took me about 20 seconds to find this bad review. I'm sure if you did a search, you could find similar stories about Leicas and Swaros. I've read them all on BF.

However, I would bet that you'd find many more QC issues at the lower price points simply because of the lower quality materials, where they are made (China), and the sheer numbers that are made.

Nobody wants to get a defective bin, but I think most customers realize that when you're paying $200 you can't expect the same quality you get at $2,000. OTOH, when you pay $2K for a bin, you have the earned the right to expect the highest quality, and if an alpha doesn't meet that standard, it's no surprise that the customer would be much more upset than if he had paid $200.

But that's where the warranty and customer service come in. It's also why I have been reluctant to buy a second-hand Leica. I would not hesitate to buy a second-hand Zeiss or Swaro.

So while all three brands might have initial equal quality and get high marks by J.D. Powers and Associates, it's the aftermarket service where I'd look harder for the differences, because when you buy a bin at the top level, you should expect it to last you a very long time and not cost you another arm and leg in repairs.

<B>

Swissboy said:

My 8x42 FLs can't brag with such a spotless record. I have had them for a bit over 7 years, and the rubber had to be replaced because it developed bulges in the area where I place my thumb. Actually, it was on one side only for a long time. And it even felt like some padding at first. So I kept them like that for about two or so years. Only when more parts became loose did I send them in. At that time, I also had problems with a hinge cover coming off. But I had a similar problem much earlier. At first, some glue did the trick though.

A rather strange and somewhat irritating problem concerns the diopter. On rare occasions it seems to go out of its position, seemingly without me having touched it. Then, after playing around with it a little, it is OK and seems not to show any signs that something might be wrong. It gets to the point where I doubt my eyes. Fortunately this has only happened about three or four times over the years. With this, it's probably futile to have someone check it. So I did not mention anything on the occasion of the replacement of the rubber cover.

Click to expand...

Hi Robert

Regarding your wandering diopter perhaps something that happened to me could help.

A few years ago for some reason I had several occasions spread over the year when I needed to pull my FLs out of their case quickly. In doing so I inadvertantly pulled up the focus wheel on a few of these occasions and twice I found that I had shifted the diopter adjustment a little.

Since then I have taken more care with how I grip the bins to pull them out of their case and the issue has not happened again.

Could this have happened to you?

Lee

Dear B,
I of course agree with you.
In a past life I chauferred my boss in his Rolls Royce.
The first car was faultless, the second new one not.
A Rolls engineer drove 300 miles fixed the car and left. No paperwork. It never happened, so important was their reputation.
I tried to repair a Halina camera. It was so awful it was not worse the effort.
Also a 80mm f/2.8 East Zeiss Biometer. The machining inside was crude.
So yes, quality shows.
Incidentally I complained to Leica that their click stop dioptre meant I could not get a perfect view as my exact dioptre setting was mid stop.
They told me I was the first to mention this.
Although my eyes are not great I can spot very fine adjustments.
My Leica is otherwise wonderful as is the laser rangefinder.
In the past Leica service was exemplary, times may have changed for various reasons.
My slide projectors were repaired years out of warranty.
A friend bought his godson a Leica binocular not that long ago, which was lost in a Patagonian river.
Leica air freighted a replacement immediately at no cost.

Troubador said:

Hi Robert

..... In doing so I inadvertantly pulled up the focus wheel on a few of these occasions and twice I found that I had shifted the diopter adjustment a little.

....Could this have happened to you?

Lee

Click to expand...

Lee, as I had mentioned it seemed to me that I had not done anything to the diopter. But I can't fully exclude that. Also, the diopter was WAY off, not just a little, which also speaks against inadvertent touching. So it's more likely that the adjustment can slide out of synchrony so that one only focusses with one tube. But how would that hook up again with a little playing around with the diopter, and being set correctly in the end? I just can't quite see what it is.
By the way, I usually keep my binoculars freely "floating" or whatever in my luggage or so. Certainly does not help to keep them spotless, but I have managed to keep the lenses free from scratches.

Binastro said:

.....In the past Leica service was exemplary, times may have changed for various reasons.
My slide projectors were repaired years out of warranty.
A friend bought his godson a Leica binocular not that long ago, which was lost in a Patagonian river.
Leica air freighted a replacement immediately at no cost.

Click to expand...

I agree that Leica service USED TO be excellent. Not any more, at least not for free. But regarding the air freighted replacement, that smacks of special customer relations, like a dealer or professional photographer or whatever. When my APO 77 scope was blown over and the attachment foot broke off, I had to pay for the repairs. Luckily the optics survived that fall, so it was not very expensive. However, when my brother's APO 77 fell off the tripod, the prisms shattered and he had to pay for a very expensive repair job. Both these repairs have been way in the past, at a time when one would still have thought Leica would be more accommodating.