Shanghai Perambulations (2 Viewers)

Frogfish · Oct 7, 2012

thrush said:
Hi Frogfish, I see four photos in your post above. From left to right, the first is certainly a verditer; nice record. I don't see how you can call the second anything but a robin/mugimaki. The third, the dead bird, baffles me. I support your ID of the fourth as a lesser cuckoo, but if you put a gun to my head . . . after all, the pupil may merely be dilated; we may not be talking about a darker eye at all. That's why it pays to keep on snapping up shots. You probably have more images of the cuckoo and the dead bird; those shots may help us nail down an ID.

Thanks Craig !

2. The second Verditer shot is linked to (above - just click on it) as the forum software here will not accept two files that have very similar names.

3. I saw a lot of Mugimaki females (and took lots of shots - over 800 in total from the day, culled to 450) but none of the other Mugimaki females looked like this bird (rotund - the others were all typical flycatcher outlines) and it seems to match the picture in Brazil's very well. I'm probably wrong of course as book plates can be misleading ! I've uploaded a comparison below (A. looks like a female Mugimaki but B.) ???) and tell me what you think. it doesn't look like any Robin found in this region.

4. Mark has ID'd the dead bird as a Siberian Blue Robin.

5. Cuckoo - I hadn't thought of a dilated pupil. I have more shots so will check them and post another. EDIT - Now attached. I have 8 shots - 6 show the eye as black and they are not visible in the other two (in flight).

Frogfish · Oct 7, 2012

Back Garden Birding - Episode 3,426 (well in the small compound where I live anyway).

Green Sandpiper and a ......... Swinhoe's Robin !

Very poor pics in very low light to follow.

MKinHK · Oct 7, 2012

Your (non-Verditer)flycatchers are all Mugimaki.

Cuckoos are tough but my inclination would be for Lesser.

Cheers
Mike

Frogfish · Oct 7, 2012

MKinHK said:
Your (non-Verditer)flycatchers are all Mugimaki.

Cuckoos are tough but my inclination would be for Lesser.

Cheers
Mike

Thanks Mike ! Can you, or Craig, explain a little more ? The shape (more Robin-like), colours etc. are completely different from the other Mugimaki females. All very confusing ! Also do Mugimaki migrate in flocks ?

MKinHK · Oct 8, 2012

Frogfish

The shape is just a fluffed-up vs unfluffed thing. There is substantial colour variation between individual bierds, including intensity of the throat colour and strength of the wingbars.

Old females can adopt a washed-out "ghost" of male plumage and some first winter males especially can be pretty bright.

Cheers
Mike

Frogfish · Oct 8, 2012

MKinHK said:
Frogfish

The shape is just a fluffed-up vs unfluffed thing. There is substantial colour variation between individual bierds, including intensity of the throat colour and strength of the wingbars.

Old females can adopt a washed-out "ghost" of male plumage and some first winter males especially can be pretty bright.

Cheers
Mike

Thanks - that explains a lot !

thrush · Oct 8, 2012

Frogfish said:
Back Garden Birding - Episode 3,426 (well in the small compound where I live anyway).

Green Sandpiper and a ......... Swinhoe's Robin !

Very poor pics in very low light to follow.

You had a Swinhoe's/rufous-tailed robin in your compound? Wow! Great bird.

thrush · Oct 8, 2012

Frogfish said:
Thanks Mike ! Can you, or Craig, explain a little more ? The shape (more Robin-like), colours etc. are completely different from the other Mugimaki females. All very confusing ! Also do Mugimaki migrate in flocks ?

I see orange wash to the underparts in your robins/mugimakis. (Note: In the book I'm writing [e-Guide to the Birds of China], I call Ficedula mugimaki "robin flycatcher," because I prefer simple, common-sense, native English names whenever possible, and because "robin flycatcher" provides useful information about the bird, as it does bear some resemblance to a Eurasian robin). I regularly see robin flycatchers in pairs or small flocks; right now, for example, there are two female robin flycatchers in Zhongshan Park. I don't think I've ever seen a Narcissus flycatcher in autumn in the Shanghai region.

thrush · Oct 8, 2012

Frogfish said:
. . .

4. Mark has ID'd the dead bird as a Siberian Blue Robin.

5. Cuckoo - I hadn't thought of a dilated pupil. I have more shots so will check them and post another. EDIT - Now attached. I have 8 shots - 6 show the eye as black and they are not visible in the other two (in flight).

I think that Mark may be right about the dead bird; one of the first things I noticed in your picture was the "long tarsi" (Brazil, Birds of East Asia); sure enough, Brazil notes the same thing. Mystery solved.

As for the cuckoo, the more shots you have showing an all-black eye, the stronger your hypothesis becomes that it's a lesser. I can't think of a single better differentiator, except of course voice.

thrush · Oct 8, 2012

Also, Frogfish, I think your Cuculus cuckoo is a juvenile. A juvenile Cuculus is even more difficult to differentiate; the irides of the Eurasian (canorus), Himalayan (saturatus), and Oriental (optatus) are also dark in the juvenile. So it may be impossible to know what species one is looking at.

I was in Xinjiang in May, and I well remember spotting a Cuculus cuckoo on a wire, and waiting, waiting, waiting for the call. Finally, out came the coo-COO, coo-COO, the famous call of the Eurasian. What a relief. I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that I was beholding a Cuculus canorus. Of course, upon later investigation I discovered that, unless all my guidebooks were incorrect, the only Cuculus in northern Xinjiang is canorus, but still, it always feels good to nail an ID of a Cuculus.

McMadd · Oct 8, 2012

thrush said:
I think that Mark may be right about the dead bird; one of the first things I noticed in your picture was the "long tarsi" (Brazil, Birds of East Asia); sure enough, Brazil notes the same thing. Mystery solved.
voice.

Of course I'm right

McMadd · Oct 8, 2012

thrush said:
...I call Ficedula mugimaki "robin flycatcher," because I prefer simple, common-sense, native English names whenever possible, and because "robin flycatcher" provides useful information about the bird, as it does bear some resemblance to a Eurasian robin).

Ok...serious question Craig...how will "robin flycatcher" work with US birders whom, I would expect, may be somewhat confused to see a warbler-sized bird with a thrush-sized name?

cheers
McM

rockfowl · Oct 8, 2012

I really don't like the use of robin Flycatcher either and potentially adds confusion, especially if you throw other ficedula into the mix. Mugimaki has an allure, is commonly used, internationally known and more importantly it is the English name used by the China Bird Report team - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwL...3LWI1MmQtMDcyYTg0MDRmYjk1/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

"3. I saw a lot of Mugimaki females (and took lots of shots - over 800 in total from the day, culled to 450) but none of the other Mugimaki females looked like this bird (rotund - the others were all typical flycatcher outlines) and it seems to match the picture in Brazil's very well. I'm probably wrong of course as book plates can be misleading ! I've uploaded a comparison below (A. looks like a female Mugimaki but B.) ???) and tell me what you think. it doesn't look like any Robin found in this region"

It's a young male, note the head pattern developing, your other shots show female types.

Frogfish · Oct 8, 2012

rockfowl said:
"3. I saw a lot of Mugimaki females (and took lots of shots - over 800 in total from the day, culled to 450) but none of the other Mugimaki females looked like this bird (rotund - the others were all typical flycatcher outlines) and it seems to match the picture in Brazil's very well. I'm probably wrong of course as book plates can be misleading ! I've uploaded a comparison below (A. looks like a female Mugimaki but B.) ???) and tell me what you think. it doesn't look like any Robin found in this region"

It's a young male, note the head pattern developing, your other shots show female types.

Ah ! Excellent, thank you.

thrush · Oct 9, 2012

McMadd said:
Ok...serious question Craig...how will "robin flycatcher" work with US birders whom, I would expect, may be somewhat confused to see a warbler-sized bird with a thrush-sized name?

cheers
McM

Experienced U.S. birders know that using "robin" for Turdus migratorius is essentially a mistake; it's the folk taxonomy of the early colonists, who named the new American birds after similar-looking species from Britain; that's why we have blackbirds that aren't related to the Old World blackbird, orioles that aren't related to Old World orioles, flycatchers, vultures, etc. "Robin flycatcher" is not something I made up; the Handbook of the Birds of the World lists it as an alternative name for Ficedula mugimaki.

I prefer names that call to mind an image, and I tend to dislike commemorating ornithologists; I therefore prefer "rufous-tailed robin" over "Swinhoe's robin." My very favorite names are the old, poetic names, such as "fieldfare" and "nightingale," but those names aren't always available for birds recently discovered by Europeans.

"Mugimaki" is just a label to me; it could just as well be "makimugi." But "robin" evokes an image; even a U.S. birder with zero experience with Old World robins, upon seeing Ficedula mugimaki and its orange underparts, will know instantly why the bird is called "robin" flycatcher.

Describe something to me . . . I may mistakenly say "makimugi" for "mugimaki," but I'll never call a speckled piculet a pickled speculate, because speckles are something I recognize.

thrush · Oct 9, 2012

Here are some first-year male robin flycatchers (Ficedula mugimaki), photographed yesterday in Zhongshan Park, Shanghai.

thrush · Oct 10, 2012

Interestingly, on the very same day that I write about the rufous-tailed robin, what do I run into at Century Park in Shanghai but a Luscinia sibilans?

Frogfish · Oct 14, 2012

thrush said:
Interestingly, on the very same day that I write about the rufous-tailed robin, what do I run into at Century Park in Shanghai but a Luscinia sibilans?

Nice shot Craig - much better than mine taken of a skulking bird under a bush as dusk :t:

Frogfish · Oct 14, 2012

Well a trip to Huangshan Mountain with my 81 yr old father (yes, he reached the peak !) gave me a chance to dive out every morning for a couple of hours, before he awoke, each day and explore new pastures. I also made a quick dash the 80kms to Wu Yuan one morning hoping to find my old loves, the Pied Falconets - that was easily worth the return trip from Huangshan before breakfast !

Some of those pastures yielded :
Daurian Redstart (x1 in the awesome public park in Huangshan) (x1 in Wu Yuan)
Grey Treepie x4 (park in Huangshan)
Eurasian Jay x4 (park in Huangshan)
Coal Tit (many on Huangshan Mtn itself - at high altitudes and up to 1,800m). Confirmation anyone ?
Plumbeous Redstart (x1 male, in Wu Yuan)
Grey Headed Woodpecker (M&F in Wu Yuan)
Black Throated Tit (x3 park in Huangshan)
Great Tits (many small flocks - I think both Northern and Eastern) (park in Huangshan)
Yellow Bellied Tit (x1 park in Huangshan)
Also can anyone ID the unknown bird at this link here (taken with a 35mm Zeiss lens at the base of Huangshan Mountain) ? http://frogfish.smugmug.com/Category/Bird-shots-for-ID/i-2R3FX64/0/L/Unknown-Bird-Huangshan-L.jpg I thought it was a Treepie but I can't find anything like it in either Brazil's or MacKinnon's.
Pied Falconets (x7 - 4 on one branch !) (in Wu Yuan) - I'll post these shots later !

Not bad considering I was there for the scenery ! Sorry that the shots are generally very poor quality - I did suffer from very low light quality in the a.m. whilst there (and consequently high ISO or low shutter speed .. or both) !

MKinHK · Oct 14, 2012

Frogfish

This is one of the Necklaced Laughingthrushes.

I think its Greater based on the pattern on the cheek, which Lesser should not show. However there is a hint of a pale iris, which is a pro-Lesser feature.

Cheers
Mike

PS looking forward to the Falconet pix

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