I like the Bird ID messages also - whether in the form of a quiz (the poster knows the ID and is testing the rest of us on our ability) or in the form of "help me figure out what I saw". Gives me a chance to see if I can ID the bird and thereby test myself. I learn from the fine points others provide. It's all good. Barbara
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Why so many "ID this bird" posts? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jobkjoseph
- Start date
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
searobin said:
Me too - and bird i.d. questions are always the ones that get answered the most quickly, they're always eagerly awaited
I really liked the post from John Cantelo quoted below. Sure, this is the internet. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions -- and that does include everyone, including the original poster in this thread.
My view of birding is that the only way you really learn is by the struggle. Spend hours working on an ID, with every resource you have. Check and recheck the flank patterning, the eye ring, the relative length of the undertail coverts, whatever the key is for the species, until you have learned and progressed. The book study feeds the field study which feeds the book study and so forth, in a self-reinforcing cycle as you go from newbie to... wherever it is you want to go. That process is why my favorites are such families as gulls and flycatchers -- better and more interesting puzzles.
When you don't do that, when you don't push yourself to learn, when you turn too quickly to an easy source, and then go back again and again, never doing the work to progress first... then you are cheating yourself. Only yourself. In my opinion.
Hey, you're not hurting me, no problem, do as you want. It is a big internet out there. But, I think the original poster was well intentioned and trying to be helpful. For people who view the world his way... and perhaps my similar way. Not that I would wish to somehow impose my way of viewing birding on others -- if it feels good for others to approach things completely differently, then they should do just that.
My view of birding is that the only way you really learn is by the struggle. Spend hours working on an ID, with every resource you have. Check and recheck the flank patterning, the eye ring, the relative length of the undertail coverts, whatever the key is for the species, until you have learned and progressed. The book study feeds the field study which feeds the book study and so forth, in a self-reinforcing cycle as you go from newbie to... wherever it is you want to go. That process is why my favorites are such families as gulls and flycatchers -- better and more interesting puzzles.
When you don't do that, when you don't push yourself to learn, when you turn too quickly to an easy source, and then go back again and again, never doing the work to progress first... then you are cheating yourself. Only yourself. In my opinion.
Hey, you're not hurting me, no problem, do as you want. It is a big internet out there. But, I think the original poster was well intentioned and trying to be helpful. For people who view the world his way... and perhaps my similar way. Not that I would wish to somehow impose my way of viewing birding on others -- if it feels good for others to approach things completely differently, then they should do just that.
John Cantelo said:
Ruby
Well-known member
Yes, I am sure that it is true that on occasion, people could do a bit more work themselves before calling for help, but bear in mind that, if a person successfully identifies a tricky bird themselves, then one person has learnt something.
If it's posted on here, potentially a whole bunch of people have learnt something!!
Personally, I enjoy the id threads - I like to test myself by coming up with my own ideas before reading the rest of the thread - usually wrong of course... but not always!!
If it's posted on here, potentially a whole bunch of people have learnt something!!
Personally, I enjoy the id threads - I like to test myself by coming up with my own ideas before reading the rest of the thread - usually wrong of course... but not always!!
cavan wood
Well-known member
Ruby said:
I totally agree. I have identified over 200 birds in the field in North America, by myself, but I love the bird ID threads. Just today I learned something new from an ID thread about the facial and underwing features of the northern harrier, that I had just never really taken notice of before, even though I have identified these birds in the field many times.
Cheers,
Scott
Ghostly Vision
Well-known member
All good points. It is apparent which side I'm on, since I started the other thread on ruffled feathers. (The reason I posted it there was that there was a potential for people to get a little heated, and I was reticent about that happening on a main forum. The title was designed to get people to have a look, rather than to explain what the thread was about).
A bird id made easy is one that does not stick in the memory. That is presumably why the same people keep posting pics of the same species and asking what it is all over again.
An i.d. that has been learned by the individual, whether through a gentle nudge, a demonstration of the relevant features, or a struggle through a book, will stick and make the learner a much more competent bird identifier.
I have been trying it with plants for the last three or four years and my progress is VERY poor. We have 40 species of Dragon/damselfly in the UK and I still get them wrong sometimes. When I'm in the field, I ask those who know better than me what something is, and why. Then when those "why's" are explained to me, and I can see them for myself, I will look for them next time.
So this is my summary; if you want to post a picture for id, say what you think it might be (there is no risk here; if you're wrong people on here won't laugh at you or criticise. It's a friendly place. And the fact that you have asked for an id on an "easy" species tells everyone you are a beginner, and they will make allowances). Say why you think it might be one, and how you reached the conclusion. Also, say where and when you photographed it, what it was doing, anything else you think is relevant.
THEN, when people reply, they should say what it is, and WHY it is one, so that then everyone can learn a little bit more - and maybe it will stick.
But, PLEASE don't be put off from posting and keep them coming.
Love to all
Sean
A bird id made easy is one that does not stick in the memory. That is presumably why the same people keep posting pics of the same species and asking what it is all over again.
An i.d. that has been learned by the individual, whether through a gentle nudge, a demonstration of the relevant features, or a struggle through a book, will stick and make the learner a much more competent bird identifier.
I have been trying it with plants for the last three or four years and my progress is VERY poor. We have 40 species of Dragon/damselfly in the UK and I still get them wrong sometimes. When I'm in the field, I ask those who know better than me what something is, and why. Then when those "why's" are explained to me, and I can see them for myself, I will look for them next time.
So this is my summary; if you want to post a picture for id, say what you think it might be (there is no risk here; if you're wrong people on here won't laugh at you or criticise. It's a friendly place. And the fact that you have asked for an id on an "easy" species tells everyone you are a beginner, and they will make allowances). Say why you think it might be one, and how you reached the conclusion. Also, say where and when you photographed it, what it was doing, anything else you think is relevant.
THEN, when people reply, they should say what it is, and WHY it is one, so that then everyone can learn a little bit more - and maybe it will stick.
But, PLEASE don't be put off from posting and keep them coming.
Love to all
Sean
Ranger James
Well-known member
Bluetail said:
Yup - it amazes me how much faith people put on the images posted. With complex identification to sub-species level based on exactly that!
Mind you - the ID section is one of my favourites of the whole site. Moer of it please!
James
Ranger James
Well-known member
Grousemore said:
Surely if you haven't been able to ID the bird in the field you can't then satisfactoraly tick the bird when its IDed for you afterwards? Would be a bit of a hollow vicotry in my book!
James
