More lens advice. (1 Viewer)

DaveTaylor · May 28, 2008

OK, I'm in the market for a replacement lens, my Sigma 50-500mm (bigma) being stolen. I can't afford the canon IS 500mm or 600mm lenses, so my question is, what would be third choice. The zoom was handy on the sigma, but I'm after quality, and reach. So I'm considering the Sigma 500mm F4.5 lens or even the 800mm f5.6 lens, both of which are prime lenses and I am told will work on my 40D. My thinking is this - most of my bird pictures that never came out were either a little soft or blurred. The softness I think was down to the quality of the lens, being a zoom quality is usually a compromise and I'm guessing the quality would be better from a prime lens. Also shutter speed - the 50-500mm, being an F6.3, I was often shooting at 1/100th second, hence any slight movement in either me holding the equipment or the bird itself would result in a blurred picture. So I'm also thinking that a faster lens would allow for a higher shutter speed and hopefully more keepers than deleters. This is my reasoning as to how I think my choice will be a sigma 500mm, but I am interested to hear what others have found. Also is the sigma 800mm f5.6 an option, or is it just too big, heavy and not much faster than the Bigma? I think I've ruled out a 100-400 IS lens as I never hear people say "that birds too close" so a 500mm or bigger would seem logical.

So I would really like to hear what others think. I know there have been lots of discussions on these issues on Birdforum, and I have read many of them which has helped me arrive at this point so far. But before spending lots of money I'd really value all the advice I can get. I do have the chance when I'm ready to try both the 500mm and 800mm lenses out.

Keith Reeder · May 28, 2008

DaveTaylor said:
I think I've ruled out a 100-400 IS lens as I never hear people say "that birds too close"

Well I dunno about that, Dave - I'm forever using less than 400mm with my 100-400mm, and I've got an awful lot of shots as a result that I would not have been able to get with a fixed 400mm.

DaveTaylor · May 28, 2008

Yeah, but don't you have to resort to the 1.4x Kenko converter for "many" of your shots? I tried a converter once, but the drop in quality (on the Sigma 50-500mm) was so drastic I sold it on ebay.

Dave Hutton · May 28, 2008

DaveTaylor said:
OK, I'm in the market for a replacement lens, my Sigma 50-500mm (bigma) being stolen. I can't afford the canon IS 500mm or 600mm lenses, so my question is, what would be third choice. The zoom was handy on the sigma, but I'm after quality, and reach. So I'm considering the Sigma 500mm F4.5 lens or even the 800mm f5.6 lens, both of which are prime lenses and I am told will work on my 40D. My thinking is this - most of my bird pictures that never came out were either a little soft or blurred. The softness I think was down to the quality of the lens, being a zoom quality is usually a compromise and I'm guessing the quality would be better from a prime lens. Also shutter speed - the 50-500mm, being an F6.3, I was often shooting at 1/100th second, hence any slight movement in either me holding the equipment or the bird itself would result in a blurred picture. So I'm also thinking that a faster lens would allow for a higher shutter speed and hopefully more keepers than deleters. This is my reasoning as to how I think my choice will be a sigma 500mm, but I am interested to hear what others have found. Also is the sigma 800mm f5.6 an option, or is it just too big, heavy and not much faster than the Bigma? I think I've ruled out a 100-400 IS lens as I never hear people say "that birds too close" so a 500mm or bigger would seem logical.

So I would really like to hear what others think. I know there have been lots of discussions on these issues on Birdforum, and I have read many of them which has helped me arrive at this point so far. But before spending lots of money I'd really value all the advice I can get. I do have the chance when I'm ready to try both the 500mm and 800mm lenses out.

Dave you mention not being able to afford the Canon 500F4 yet mention the Sigma 800 F5.6 which is around about the same price range????
I use both the Canon 500F4 & the Sigma 300-800 & i know (Steve Seal) is very happy with his Sigma 500F4.5 & getting some superb results & as with the 100-400 theres a lot of fantastic photos out there taken by this lens (Just look at Keith Reeders shots)

DaveTaylor · May 28, 2008

I've had a look at Keith's shots and they are very good. I just wonder if a 400mm is enough reach or will I have to resort to a converter. The 100-400mm is already a F5.6 at 400mm so with a converter on I will lose even more light and then shutter speeds will drop. I do recognise the 100-400mm is a cracking lens - I do own a 70-200mm F2.8 L series lens and it is amazing.

There is a used 800mm Sigma prime lens for sale at £1,500 and I'm considering this, not the 300-800mm zoom

paul goode · May 28, 2008

Dave,

If the Canon 500mm f4 is out of the question then I'd say look for a s/h 500mm Sigma. A damn good lens for about £1000-£1200, it'll work well with a taped TC to give you 700mm and far more maneagable size wise than the 800mm.
I sense that you've discounted the 100-400 and therefore the 400mm f5.6 as to short, so a 500mm is the way to go :t:

You're more than welcome to try my 100-400 and 500mm f4 but I would only put the 500mm on your camera if you're prepared to sell your soul afterwards to get one

Keith Reeder · May 28, 2008

DaveTaylor said:
Yeah, but don't you have to resort to the 1.4x Kenko converter for "many" of your shots? I tried a converter once, but the drop in quality (on the Sigma 50-500mm) was so drastic I sold it on ebay.

Naaah, never use a TC now - it doesn't play nice with the 40D - and I'm fine with "just" 400mm (or less).

That said, yes I'd use a TC too if it worked the 40D and 100-400mm.

I mentioned the zoom thing because despite what some folk say, lots of opportunities for < 400mm bird shots present themselves, and it's not always possible to use "foot zooming".

Indeed, this mandarin was taken with a TC (on the 30D) and 200mm on the lens...

It's just nice to have options, I feel.

paul goode · May 28, 2008

Keith Reeder said:
Naaah, never use a TC now - it doesn't play nice with the 40D - and I'm fine with "just" 400mm (or less).

That said, yes I'd use a TC too if it worked the 40D and 100-400mm.

I mentioned the zoom thing because despite what some folk say, lots of opportunities for < 400mm bird shots present themselves, and it's not always possible to use "foot zooming".

Indeed, this mandarin was taken with a TC (on the 30D) and 200mm on the lens...

It's just nice to have options, I feel.

Maybe thats where Dave's 70-200 will come in handy

Keith Reeder · May 28, 2008

Well yeah, but then you're into swapping lenses around.

Still, to each their own..!

DaveTaylor · May 29, 2008

I realise that everyone has their own preferences, and by choosing something different there is always a risk of offending people for seemingly snubbing their choice. But generally people say if you want quality stick with a prime lens. I also need something that's possible to carry about and with as fast a shutter speed as I can afford. Budget is around £1500 so my thinking was a used Sigma 500mm F4.5 lens. There are 300mm F2.8 lenses about so this may be an option with a 2x converter. I have seen some good results using a converter, but I was hoping to avoid using one if possible.

Roy C · May 29, 2008

DaveTaylor said:
. Budget is around £1500 so my thinking was a used Sigma 500mm F4.5 lens. There are 300mm F2.8 lenses about so this may be an option with a 2x converter.

Never seen or heard a bad word about the Siggy 500 f4.5.
I was also thinking about a 300 f2.8 with a 2x tc but after a lot of research have concluded that using it with a 2x most of the time will not yield consistent good results.

Keith Reeder · May 29, 2008

DaveTaylor said:
I realise that everyone has their own preferences, and by choosing something different there is always a risk of offending people for seemingly snubbing their choice.

You can rest easy there, Dave - no offence taken here, because what other folk choose to spend their money on doesn't hurt my pictures at all..!

paul goode · May 29, 2008

DaveTaylor said:
I have seen some good results using a converter, but I was hoping to avoid using one if possible.

I think your experiences with the 50-500 and a TC has jaundiced your opinion a bit. I had the same setup and only managed garbage as well.
However the primes and tc's are a different world.
I used my Sigma 500mm f4.5 with a Kenko pro300dg 1.4x and was very pleased with the results. And I can't remember the last time I took the Canon 1.4x off my 500mm f4, its that good!
As I've said before its not how good the 500mms are, its how good they are as 700mms :t:

Roy C · May 29, 2008

Keith Reeder said:
Well yeah, but then you're into swapping lenses around.

Still, to each their own..!

No need to swap lenses if you have two bodies, I very often take along my 30D with 70-200 attached just in case I can get mega close to a bird - think I have used it a couple of times for flock shots.

Roy C · May 29, 2008

Keith Reeder said:
I mentioned the zoom thing because despite what some folk say, lots of opportunities for < 400mm bird shots present themselves,the lens...

I think the birds around your local patch must be tame Keith or maybe you have found a way of calling them in to you

paul goode · May 29, 2008

Roy C said:
I think the birds around your local patch must be tame Keith or maybe you have found a way of calling them in to you

You beat me to it Roy!

Its often posted on here that you can use short lenses for bird photography but in my experience thats the exception rather than the norm, assuming we are talking wild birds

The Siskin is an example. The lens needed an extension tube to focus so I was probably about 10'-12' from it, and yet it still needed a 1.4x on the 500mm to get the bird pretty well full frame.
I agree that shots of the birds showing more habitat could be achieved with a shorter lens but the Chaffinch wasn't far away but still needed 700mm to avoid much cropping

postcardcv · May 29, 2008

Personally I would recommend avoiding the 800 f5.6... it is a beast of a lens. The close focus on it is terrible on a number of occassions I've watched a local chap who has one having to back away from a bird just to be able to focus! I did use the 500 f4.5 for a couple of years and was always very happy with it, personally I think only the big Canon primes are better for bird photography. As Paul mentioned it plays very nicely with the Kenko 1.4x tc (with pins taped), though you need a decent tripod to get the best from it.

I've attached some shots taken with the Sigma 500 f4.5, most with, but one without the 1.4x tc.

postcardcv · May 29, 2008

paul goode said:
I agree that shots of the birds showing more habitat could be achieved with a shorter lens but the Chaffinch wasn't far away but still needed 700mm to avoid much cropping

stunning shot Paul :t:

paul goode · May 29, 2008

I think your middle image presents a very good case for the Sigma 500mm Peter, taking into account what became of it

Roy C · May 29, 2008

postcardcv said:
Personally I would recommend avoiding the 800 f5.6... it is a beast of a lens. The close focus on it is terrible on a number of occassions I've watched a local chap who has one having to back away from a bird just to be able to focus! I did use the 500 f4.5 for a couple of years and was always very happy with it, personally I think only the big Canon primes are better for bird photography. As Paul mentioned it plays very nicely with the Kenko 1.4x tc (with pins taped), though you need a decent tripod to get the best from it.

I've attached some shots taken with the Sigma 500 f4.5, most with, but one without the 1.4x tc.

Wow, that middle image is a great capture Pete.

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