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Monk Parakeets (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter MarkHows
- Start date
Jasonbirder
Jason-occasional-twitcher
Worrying ???
I believe Monk Parakeets have bred - whether the population is increasing because of that or because of escapes I couldn`t answer.
As for worrying - I know Parakeets are noisy, messy and probably compete against native birds - but they are also colourful, exotic and charming - so much of our supposedly native fauna is introduced (i`m thinking Little Owls & Red-legged Partridges, but you could add all Feral Geese, the exotic Pheasants, Mandarins etc) that i`m sure we accomodate another without heading for an ecological wipe out!
I believe Monk Parakeets have bred - whether the population is increasing because of that or because of escapes I couldn`t answer.
As for worrying - I know Parakeets are noisy, messy and probably compete against native birds - but they are also colourful, exotic and charming - so much of our supposedly native fauna is introduced (i`m thinking Little Owls & Red-legged Partridges, but you could add all Feral Geese, the exotic Pheasants, Mandarins etc) that i`m sure we accomodate another without heading for an ecological wipe out!
Joern Lehmhus
Well-known member
Colin,
Do you think ringnecks and monks are going to cause problems in europe in the future? The discussion about that seems to be somewhat controverse; I myself did not see those species away from a near- urban environment until recently - a flock of 18 ringnecks in a nature reserve where somebody had placed a feeder at the ferry station across a river (but the area is not very fa from the city of bonn, about 2 min flight to the roosting/sleeping trees of the Bonn population of ringnecks).
In the last 10 to 15 years raptor numbers began to rise also in urban environments, and the ringnecks I regularly observe react heavily on Sparrowhawk, and have been documented as prey of both peregrine and goshawk.
despite other information in birdbooks, monk parakeet does not seem to occur in germany at the moment.
I do like these parrots very much, having seen ringnecks in Nepal in their natural environment.
Therefore, if they do not cause any problems to other species, I would like to see them as a nice addition to our fauna, once they have established here accidentally.(I am not in favour of introduction of alien species on purpose!).
But do they affect other species, like woodpeckers for example, or do they have no effect on other species?
(I do not want to start a culling debate!!!)
I d like to know anything people think or any publication about this topic.
Do you think ringnecks and monks are going to cause problems in europe in the future? The discussion about that seems to be somewhat controverse; I myself did not see those species away from a near- urban environment until recently - a flock of 18 ringnecks in a nature reserve where somebody had placed a feeder at the ferry station across a river (but the area is not very fa from the city of bonn, about 2 min flight to the roosting/sleeping trees of the Bonn population of ringnecks).
In the last 10 to 15 years raptor numbers began to rise also in urban environments, and the ringnecks I regularly observe react heavily on Sparrowhawk, and have been documented as prey of both peregrine and goshawk.
despite other information in birdbooks, monk parakeet does not seem to occur in germany at the moment.
I do like these parrots very much, having seen ringnecks in Nepal in their natural environment.
Therefore, if they do not cause any problems to other species, I would like to see them as a nice addition to our fauna, once they have established here accidentally.(I am not in favour of introduction of alien species on purpose!).
But do they affect other species, like woodpeckers for example, or do they have no effect on other species?
(I do not want to start a culling debate!!!)
I d like to know anything people think or any publication about this topic.
Jasonbirder
Jason-occasional-twitcher
Why is there a cause for concern?
What is the difference between these birds exploiting an unfilled ecological niche and any other new species, either a colonist or an escapee?
By that logic should we be thinking of culling Cetti`s Warblers, Collared Doves and Little Owls?
Mind you if you`re after a cull i`m sure you`ll find a ready ally in the RSPB - they`re always up for one!
What is the difference between these birds exploiting an unfilled ecological niche and any other new species, either a colonist or an escapee?
By that logic should we be thinking of culling Cetti`s Warblers, Collared Doves and Little Owls?
Mind you if you`re after a cull i`m sure you`ll find a ready ally in the RSPB - they`re always up for one!
Michael Frankis
conehead
Monk Parakeet and Ring-necked Parakeet are two very different species - they are as different from each other as say, Curlew Sandpiper is from Wood Sandpiper. There's no way they would start to interbreed.
No-one has ever suggested that natural colonists like Collared Dove and Cetti's Warbler should be culled, only invasive introductions. And the rate Ring-necked Parakeets are increasing (3,000 a couple of years ago, now over 6,000), they do look like they are going to cause serious problems for native birds. For starters, that's 3,000 nest holes that are unavailable to native birds. Care to manufacture and put up 3,000 large-size nestboxes every year for the next few thousand years?
Michael
No-one has ever suggested that natural colonists like Collared Dove and Cetti's Warbler should be culled, only invasive introductions. And the rate Ring-necked Parakeets are increasing (3,000 a couple of years ago, now over 6,000), they do look like they are going to cause serious problems for native birds. For starters, that's 3,000 nest holes that are unavailable to native birds. Care to manufacture and put up 3,000 large-size nestboxes every year for the next few thousand years?
Michael
Jasonbirder
Jason-occasional-twitcher
Why are they any different to naturalised introduced species such as Golden Pheasant or Little Owl?
Ring-necked Parakeets have been able to flourish and sustain a growing population because they do not compete directly with any native species - they have exploited an unfilled ecological niche.
Ring-necked Parakeets have been able to flourish and sustain a growing population because they do not compete directly with any native species - they have exploited an unfilled ecological niche.
Joern Lehmhus
Well-known member
Well, I did not want to start a culling debate.
I would agree that competition for food may be not a problem in the introduction of parrots
I think the main point of concern has been mentioned by Michael; the problem of use of nest holes also used by native species
here it was assumed that species like green woodpecker or Great spotted woodpecker would suffer from the spread of ringnecked parakeets that occupy their nesting holes, but in the area of Bonn, during the spread of ringnecks the green woodpecker population is also growing at the moment, whereas great spotted woodpecker stays at the same level.
But this has to be watched carefully for the future.
The situation with the monk parakeet may be more complex , as this is the only species building a nest from sticks. Their colonial nests may also offer protection for other species, in Spain they were commonly used by sparrows, at least for sleeping-and only those that were occupied by the parrots.
I would agree that competition for food may be not a problem in the introduction of parrots
I think the main point of concern has been mentioned by Michael; the problem of use of nest holes also used by native species
here it was assumed that species like green woodpecker or Great spotted woodpecker would suffer from the spread of ringnecked parakeets that occupy their nesting holes, but in the area of Bonn, during the spread of ringnecks the green woodpecker population is also growing at the moment, whereas great spotted woodpecker stays at the same level.
But this has to be watched carefully for the future.
The situation with the monk parakeet may be more complex , as this is the only species building a nest from sticks. Their colonial nests may also offer protection for other species, in Spain they were commonly used by sparrows, at least for sleeping-and only those that were occupied by the parrots.
Michael Frankis
conehead
Hi Joern,
I would not think woodpeckers are likely to be affected by parakeets, as (a) they can excavate their own holes, and (b) anything other than a Black Woodpecker hole will probably be too small for a Ring-necked Parakeet. The problem is going to be more for larger hole-nesting birds like Stock Dove (Hohltaube) and Tawny Owl (Waldkauz) which could be denied access to nest sites.
Didn't know Monk Parakeets built their own nests - I thought all parrots were hole-nesters. Maybe their impact will be less then.
Hi Jason,
Every feral population has to have its impact judged as a separate case. But I'm sure the wardens on Skokholm & Skomer would love to be rid of the Little Owls that are killing lots of Storm Petrels every year. That wouldn't be happening without human interference. Golden Pheasants haven't had much chance to cause problems, but would we perhaps still have Black Grouse throughout Britain, if they hadn't been out-competed by introduced Common Pheasants?
Michael
I would not think woodpeckers are likely to be affected by parakeets, as (a) they can excavate their own holes, and (b) anything other than a Black Woodpecker hole will probably be too small for a Ring-necked Parakeet. The problem is going to be more for larger hole-nesting birds like Stock Dove (Hohltaube) and Tawny Owl (Waldkauz) which could be denied access to nest sites.
Didn't know Monk Parakeets built their own nests - I thought all parrots were hole-nesters. Maybe their impact will be less then.
Hi Jason,
Every feral population has to have its impact judged as a separate case. But I'm sure the wardens on Skokholm & Skomer would love to be rid of the Little Owls that are killing lots of Storm Petrels every year. That wouldn't be happening without human interference. Golden Pheasants haven't had much chance to cause problems, but would we perhaps still have Black Grouse throughout Britain, if they hadn't been out-competed by introduced Common Pheasants?
Michael
Joern Lehmhus
Well-known member
Hi Michael, Hi Jason
Well, stock dove is mainly using rabbit holes for nesting in the area of Bonn, in gravel pits.
And wouldn ´t the Green and Great spotted woodpeckers holes be too small for Stock Dove or Tawny Owl? (Tawny city population also not in decline until now)
In the woods here stock doves use black woodpecker holes that are larger.
Whereas many holes the ringnecks use, seem to be about the size of green woodpecker holes or of great spotted woodpecker. The preferred hole size seems to be something one bird can just squeeze in.
It was feared the parrots could drive woodpeckers out of their nesting holes again and again, so they have to build and build and have no chance to start breeding.
this sounds somewhat exaggerated to me, as the parakeets seem to start earlier with breeding than the peckers, and the peckers can be quite aggressive.
A Monk parakeet nest is something quite faszinating. It is a communal nest and every monk parakeet pair has its own nesting hole, just like in some weavers.
They like to nest on Date palms in spain (Especially Canary Date palm; but I also saw nests in other trees like Eucalyptus), and also the nests can become quite big, they are often not well to see, especially if there are still some older , brown leafs in the the crown.
Concerning Black Grouse and Pheasant-similar results in germany, but disease was also involved. Pheasants are much less sensitive to some infections than the tetraonids.
recently I read that a similar thing was also going on in the red squirrel-grey squirrel situation-greys are insensitive to a disease caused by parapox virus, but often carry it; whereas this causes about 20% mortality in the red squirrels...
Back to parakeets- Red Squirrel predation on eggs and young also seems to be not uncommon; ringnecks then flock , giving alarm calls and try to chase the squirrel off-only partly successfull.
Are interactions similar with grey squirrels?
Well, stock dove is mainly using rabbit holes for nesting in the area of Bonn, in gravel pits.
And wouldn ´t the Green and Great spotted woodpeckers holes be too small for Stock Dove or Tawny Owl? (Tawny city population also not in decline until now)
In the woods here stock doves use black woodpecker holes that are larger.
Whereas many holes the ringnecks use, seem to be about the size of green woodpecker holes or of great spotted woodpecker. The preferred hole size seems to be something one bird can just squeeze in.
It was feared the parrots could drive woodpeckers out of their nesting holes again and again, so they have to build and build and have no chance to start breeding.
this sounds somewhat exaggerated to me, as the parakeets seem to start earlier with breeding than the peckers, and the peckers can be quite aggressive.
A Monk parakeet nest is something quite faszinating. It is a communal nest and every monk parakeet pair has its own nesting hole, just like in some weavers.
They like to nest on Date palms in spain (Especially Canary Date palm; but I also saw nests in other trees like Eucalyptus), and also the nests can become quite big, they are often not well to see, especially if there are still some older , brown leafs in the the crown.
Concerning Black Grouse and Pheasant-similar results in germany, but disease was also involved. Pheasants are much less sensitive to some infections than the tetraonids.
recently I read that a similar thing was also going on in the red squirrel-grey squirrel situation-greys are insensitive to a disease caused by parapox virus, but often carry it; whereas this causes about 20% mortality in the red squirrels...
Back to parakeets- Red Squirrel predation on eggs and young also seems to be not uncommon; ringnecks then flock , giving alarm calls and try to chase the squirrel off-only partly successfull.
Are interactions similar with grey squirrels?
Joern Lehmhus
Well-known member
Hi all,
on this page you can see typical Monk parakeet nests in Brussels.
http://hjem.get2net.dk/phk/parakeeteng.htm
These nests are really fascinating constructions and to my knowledge this is the only parrot in the world that does so.
This independency from nest holes may be part of the explanation for the faster spread of the monk parakeet in Spain, compared to ringnecked parakeet and Aratinga species , that have to use holes for breeding.
on this page you can see typical Monk parakeet nests in Brussels.
http://hjem.get2net.dk/phk/parakeeteng.htm
These nests are really fascinating constructions and to my knowledge this is the only parrot in the world that does so.
This independency from nest holes may be part of the explanation for the faster spread of the monk parakeet in Spain, compared to ringnecked parakeet and Aratinga species , that have to use holes for breeding.
Michael Frankis
conehead
Hi Joern,
There's an error somewhere in that web address, it doesn't go anywhere - can you check please!
Thanks,
Michael
There's an error somewhere in that web address, it doesn't go anywhere - can you check please!
Thanks,
Michael
Joern Lehmhus
Well-known member
I am sorry, but the link works for me- I have no idea where the error might be?
Jörn
Jörn
Michael Frankis
conehead
Hi Joern,
Thanks for checking! (I still can't get it, neither I.E. nor Netscape)
Michael
Thanks for checking! (I still can't get it, neither I.E. nor Netscape)
Michael
Joern Lehmhus
Well-known member
nests
Hi Michael,
I took 2 pics of nests from that site and put them here; the link works perfectly for me
Hi Michael,
I took 2 pics of nests from that site and put them here; the link works perfectly for me
Joern Lehmhus
Well-known member
Michael Frankis
conehead
Hi Joern,
Thanks, and WOWW!! - that's some nest! I suppose there's a street light hidden in the middle of the left one somewhere, might be interesting for the young
Michael
Thanks, and WOWW!! - that's some nest! I suppose there's a street light hidden in the middle of the left one somewhere, might be interesting for the young
Michael
Joern Lehmhus
Well-known member
Yeah, they will have their own light show!
