• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Are birders sexist? (1 Viewer)

aythya_hybrid

aythya_hybrid

real name Jonathan Dean
Ok, so it's a deliberately provocative title, but some recent postings on another controversial thread got me thinking about this issue. In the twenty or so years I've been birding, the birding community has become a fair bit more diverse in terms of gender, age and class background. However, I'm still struck by the prevalence of casual sexism among some birders ("tart's tick" an obvious case in point). I remember particularly vividly my first and so far only visit to the seawatching hide at Spurn in 2005 where the other birders' "banter" was an abhorrent melange of casual racism and sexism. Also, whilst there are now more women birders, the more hardcore members of the birding community are pretty much exclusively male.

I realise this is a potentially thorny issue, but I'd be curious to hear fellow birders' thoughts. How prevalent do you think sexism is among the birding community? What are your experiences of attitudes to women birders? How have things changed during your birding career?
 
If you are suggesting that I am sexist because I referred to someones reponse a hsterical then you are way off the mark. I would use the term to describe anyones behaviour if it merited it. Perhaps those who view it as sexist have a problem themselves as it is they who appear to believe the term is feminine? And before the etymologists point out the obvious, I am aware of the root.
 
James Thomas said:
If you are suggesting that I am sexist because I referred to someones reponse a hsterical then you are way off the mark. I would use the term to describe anyones behaviour if it merited it. Perhaps those who view it as sexist have a problem themselves as it is they who appear to believe the term is feminine? And before the etymologists point out the obvious, I am aware of the root.
Click to expand...

James, fear not, I am making no such suggestion. I had thought about posting the thread before after a discussion with a birding friend about this a few weeks ago. The discussion on "other" simply brought the topic to mind...
 
Jim, if something doesn't feel right when you first read it, read it again or out loud, don't rush off a reply. It's difficult to get the full context on the first glance.
 
This is funny, as in the last month I have heard complaints of sexism in two other (often male-dominated) areas of interest to me, the atheist community and the nerd/gamer community. I honestly suspect sexism is present in any male-dominated subculture, although for the most part, other than the "little old lady birder" cliche, I think birders are a bit more socially aware of the issues than the other groups I mentioned.
 
I suspect that like many hobbies it's the men who are more obsessive (small minded!) than the women.

I say you're arrogant, stubborn and pigheaded to my friends and you say I'm hysterical, emotionally weak and will complain about the cold to yours... Oh, I think I got that the wrong way round;)

I love that... The atheist community! Realise this is off topic but fascinated to know what you guys talk about? I kind of thought if you don't believe in God that's pretty much the matter tied up?! Probably being small minded again!:t:
 
If it is sexist to prefer watching the male bird of most species, then write my name down on that list. I suspect that the list will be very long. (hardi, har,har)
 
Takes all sorts to make the world, and the Inverness bird watching group is mainly hardcore women who will scythe you down like baby corn rather than let a stupid thing like emotions or touchy feely pc crap get in the way of a good connect.

I walk the hills alone mostly as I'm happy with my own company, but when I do the birders I avoid like the plague are not the ones with ribald banter, but the drab, grey dead eyed soulless drones who try to tell people what to say and think.

So no, birdings not sexist, not racist, not any 'ist.... Apart from Swaro'ist....lol
 
I had more of an issue with the people who introduced the whole sexist thing to the other thread, and that wasn't James, but people who were under some wierd misunderstanding that "hysterical" is a sexist word? If anything their responces, which suggested that we use a different vocabulary when replying to female posters than male posters, displayed a distinct disrespect to women in itself!
 
One of our local bird watching spots is dominated by the same group of half a dozen middle aged men. They will speak to me if I speak first, quite often in a patronising way. Usually they talk fairly loudly amongst themselves and I once heard them decide to change the conversation because "she won't want to hear us talking about football and politics" (I am interested in both).

Although I belong to a couple of birdwatching groups which are about 50/50 men and women, there is another one locally that definitely only has a handful of women members. In fairness though, I think they are just anti strangers rather than particularly anti women.

Unfortunately, there is definitely a section of the male birdwatching community who regard it as " their" hobby which they indulge in as others go to the pub, fiddle about with cars or play golf. I've often wondered whether it's the activity itself that's of interest or whether they are worried that someone might ask them to do the washing up or go shopping. Maybe they think we are frightened of breaking a fingernail or getting our hair messed up.

As someone who lived through the workplace sexism of the 1970s and 80s, I find this all a bit harmless and pathetic in birdwatchers and hope attitudes will change with succeeding generations. I've never heard the phrase "tart's tick" - something like that would probably make me ask for an explanation but then I am nearly old enough to join the grumpy old woman club.
 
This thread could be almost as controversial as this article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/07/gender-studies-anti-discrimination-case
;)

It's interesting on this forum which bits tend to attract male and female members. Some bits are very predominantly male e.g. ID forums to some extent and the optics forums to a very considerable extent. Women do get taken seriously on those forums, but perhaps only if they are quite 'male' in their approach.

I'd be interested to know how people in various parts of the world see this issue. In North America, for example, there seems to be a far higher proportion of 'hardcore' birders who are female than in the UK.
 
As a middle aged lady, ie no grey hair and only minor wrinkles, I have no problem with the majority of birders being (slightly) older males. If you know what your talking about when you ID something, and can spot things that they have missed, you will gain respect in any bird hide. Even one crammed with blokes. I have found that the older men are quicker to accept that a woman can know a thing or two than the younger chaps.
Jackie
 
On a more serious note, thanks everyone for your contributions so far which have proved very interesting. Andrew, my impression too is that there is a more even gender balance within the US birding community.
 
There are many (young) female birders in Romania. I don't have the feeling that the Romanian male birders are sexist, but in Romania most birders are rather highly educated people...
 
Andrew Whitehouse said:
I'd be interested to know how people in various parts of the world see this issue. In North America, for example, there seems to be a far higher proportion of 'hardcore' birders who are female than in the UK.
Click to expand...

The 'blue rinse brigade' (buried at least one husband, find something more interesting to do) in Florida are great at sorting out winter-plumaged 'peeps'. As a mere male, I'm more than happy to acknowledge that they were brilliant! However, I have to say that many fellow males there disagreed with me and wouldn't give them the time of day... MJB:-O
 
I don't think its anything to do with birding, just something that occurs amongst certain gatherings of blokes. I recently met up with a group of lads (non-birders) I haven't seen in years and was a bit taken aback by some of the hackneyed old tosh that was loudly being bandied around. Yet if I'd had a pint alone with them they would never have considered that sort of badinage, as it really was lame.
The first female birder I knew didn't use hides much, due to the sudden silence, and furtive looks she used to get. Her ability wasn't in doubt though, even amongst the real awkward buggers.
 
Andrew Whitehouse said:
It's interesting on this forum which bits tend to attract male and female members. Some bits are very predominantly male e.g. ID forums to some extent and the optics forums to a very considerable extent.
Click to expand...

Even more so, I would say the optics forums are predominantly populated by Americans ...never really fathomed why though.
 
Birders are no more "sexist" than anybody else in my experience, but then I'm not very sensitive to it. And in any case what a tired old topic!
 
Warning! This thread is more than 12 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

G
  • Article
Evolution of a birder
Replies
0
Views
590
Green Sandpiper
G
rollingthunder
12x42 NL Pure.....
2
Replies
22
Views
5K
SuperDuty
SuperDuty
opisska
Saudi Arabia Feb-Mar 2023
2
Replies
34
Views
5K
nofair
N
S
European Russian Breeding Bird Atlas species accounts - in English
Replies
17
Views
2K
Steppe Lark
S
lgonz1008
Washington: Best of the Pacific Northwest
2
Replies
24
Views
2K
lgonz1008
lgonz1008

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top