Pentax/Minox - one and the same? (1 Viewer)

william j clive · Apr 18, 2004

After doing a bit of research into specs and catalogue numbers, I believe that the Pentax SP range are virtually the same as the Minox BR asph. range. There are minor differences but the specs for 8x32's are virtually identical and both catalogue numbers are five figures commencing with 62---. Also there is a tie-up between Leica (who own Minox) and Pentax with regard to lens coatings.

The Pentax has enjoyed rave reviews in the States, while Minox do not seem to have kindled the same enthusiasm in European reviews. However, for those who are in the market for a Minox 8x32, if my theory is correct, you can save £100 by getting the Pentax from Amazon.

Clive

trealawboy · Apr 19, 2004

william j clive said:
After doing a bit of research into specs and catalogue numbers, I believe that the Pentax SP range are virtually the same as the Minox BR asph. range. There are minor differences but the specs for 8x32's are virtually identical and both catalogue numbers are five figures commencing with 62---. Also there is a tie-up between Leica (who own Minox) and Pentax with regard to lens coatings.

The Pentax has enjoyed rave reviews in the States, while Minox do not seem to have kindled the same enthusiasm in European reviews. However, for those who are in the market for a Minox 8x32, if my theory is correct, you can save £100 by getting the Pentax from Amazon.

Clive

Hello again

I'm following information on the Pentax bins here. After a quick look at these two ranges, I'm a little sceptical abou the tie-up you suggest.

The body of these bins look different to me, and the lens size is different throughout the range

Pentax - 8x32; 8x43; 10x43; 10x50; 12x50
Minox - 8x32; 8.5x42; 10x42

Wouldn't the lenses be the same size?

Those Pentax bins on Amazon look good value.

william j clive · Apr 19, 2004

trealawboy said:
Hello again

I'm following information on the Pentax bins here. After a quick look at these two ranges, I'm a little sceptical abou the tie-up you suggest.

The body of these bins look different to me, and the lens size is different throughout the range

Pentax - 8x32; 8x43; 10x43; 10x50; 12x50
Minox - 8x32; 8.5x42; 10x42

Wouldn't the lenses be the same size?

Those Pentax bins on Amazon look good value.

I may well be quite wrong on this. The 8x32 look similar bodywise, are almost identically specified and are both manufactured in the Far East. Still, its only a theory and the Pentax are very well priced.

Clive

trealawboy · Apr 22, 2004

william j clive said:
I may well be quite wrong on this. The 8x32 look similar bodywise, are almost identically specified and are both manufactured in the Far East. Still, its only a theory and the Pentax are very well priced.

Clive

After some further reading on the net, e.g. the Better View Desired review of the Nikon 8x32 HG DCFs, I think you may well be on to something. Certainly with the 8x32s anyway.

william j clive · Apr 22, 2004

trealawboy said:
After some further reading on the net, e.g. the Better View Desired review of the Nikon 8x32 HG DCFs, I think you may well be on to something. Certainly with the 8x32s anyway.

Ineresting, eh, Trealaw. After reading further posts on the Astromart Forum, it may be that, while many components are shared, the optics of the Pentax SP, particularly the oculars are an upgrade of the Minox Optics. Perhaps the predecessor of the SP, the DCF WP, was the equivalent of the Minox 8x32. The SP have certainly appeared to have improved significantly over the WP and would account for the different review results twixt UK and USA. Also, only minor machining changes would be necessary to increase an objective from 42 to 43mm. A different ocular is all that is necessary to increase or reduce by 0.5x, and it would seem that the SP has a different ocular anyway. Do you get my highly imaginative drift?

Clive

Of course, all the above could be an absolute load of codsw@llop!

william j clive · Apr 22, 2004

Its known as badge engineering in the motor industry, perhaps it ought to be known as rubber-armour engineering in optics. There is a lot of it about - Opticron, Viking, Vixen, Delta, Avian, RSPB & what have you. Its even more widespread in the USA, and most of it originates probably from the same factory in the Far East.

Clive

trealawboy · Oct 4, 2004

william j clive said:
Its known as badge engineering in the motor industry, perhaps it ought to be known as rubber-armour engineering in optics. There is a lot of it about - Opticron, Viking, Vixen, Delta, Avian, RSPB & what have you. Its even more widespread in the USA, and most of it originates probably from the same factory in the Far East.

Clive

I spoke with a Minox chap at the Birdfair in August.

There is a large binocular manufacturer in Japan that makes binoculars to the required specification of certain brand names. What this means is that Minox, Pentax and others are probably made by the same company, sharing many components, but also with various differences that set them apart.

hinnark · Oct 4, 2004

trealawboy said:
I spoke with a Minox chap at the Birdfair in August.

There is a large binocular manufacturer in Japan that makes binoculars to the required specification of certain brand names. What this means is that Minox, Pentax and others are probably made by the same company, sharing many components, but also with various differences that set them apart.

AFAIK the name of this company is Kamakura. They should be able to produce every quality from cheap to high end. The relationship in Japanese optical industry are very complicated. I would like to have an overview. Is Nikon associated with Fuji? Which company is autonomous?

Steve

Curtis Croulet · Oct 4, 2004

Sorry, I'm just now discovering this thread, but this probably explains why so many Japanese-made bins have identical exterior components and very similar optical characteristics.

Jeff Bouton · Oct 4, 2004

william j clive said:
After doing a bit of research into specs and catalogue numbers, I believe that the Pentax SP range are virtually the same as the Minox BR asph. range. There are minor differences but the specs for 8x32's are virtually identical and both catalogue numbers are five figures commencing with 62---. Also there is a tie-up between Leica (who own Minox) and Pentax with regard to lens coatings.

Well folks I'm going public!....

I'm a 20 year veteran field research biologist and bird/nature tour leader, but recently I started a new job with Leica Sports Optics USA as Product Specialist for Birder/Naturalist Markets. As such, I can say officially there has never been any shared technologies between Pentax and Leica regarding lens coatings or other sports optics features. Probably this was a cleverly designed ploy by Clive to flush me out of hiding. It was bound to come up anyway in this crowd.... "Hey, have you ever noticed how much access that guy has to all kinds of Leica products?!?...."

At any rate, the only reason I've been a lurker to this point is clearly the majority of the "Opticphiles" on this list know a lot more than I on most of these topics, but I'm learning. Also after exposing myself to 15,000+ members I now need to create another 40 hours in each week to deal with the increased personal mail I'll receive. I will say that I'm glad I discovered the forum as it's a great resource. Not just in my new job, but for all nature topics. You'll also note that most of my informative posts have been regarding bird ID. When I've chimed in on the optics lines it has mostly been me asking questions, so I'm not lying about the birder bit.

I will add that now that I'm "exposed", I will do my very best to address any legitimate questions and concerns regarding our products you may have offline. I can tell you that many of the legitimate concerns you have expressed that I've noted have gone straight to the tops of the company though and are being addressed!

Now, please all be nice to the birder who works for the optics company! :bounce:

Best,

Jeff Bouton
Leica Sports Optics
Port Charlotte, FL USA

Andrew Rowlands · Oct 4, 2004

Jeff Bouton said:
Well folks I'm going public!....

Yeah but have you told your folks? Wait 'til they find out!

Andy.

laika · Oct 4, 2004

hinnark said:
AFAIK the name of this company is Kamakura. They should be able to produce every quality from cheap to high end. The relationship in Japanese optical industry are very complicated. I would like to have an overview. Is Nikon associated with Fuji? Which company is autonomous?

Steve

I don't know about Kamakura,but i understand there is another company in Japan I'am not sure about the name ,but i think it is Light Optical Industries or Light Optical works.They produce optics for many different brand names.

ranburr · Oct 4, 2004

Light Optical works is Japans premire optics manufacturer. Hakko is the number two outfit.

ranburr

Curtis Croulet · Oct 5, 2004

Interesting that so small a company can have so much influence:

http://www.city.suwa.nagano.jp/kigyou/suwashi/lightkoki/english.htm

Steve · Oct 5, 2004

Jeff, Not sure it was wise to show your hand as an optics expert as we have Huge fish from other optics companies as members and they wanted to stay anon so they wouldnt get the E mails of why or how or even complaints!! One or two of them have been using BF as a guide to what customers want for many months. It would also be Better for all concerned if you answered any Leica enquiries on the forum, this way if by chance your wrong about the opposition, it wont come back and Bite you

Curtis Croulet · Oct 5, 2004

There's at least one fellow here who posts openly as working for Eagle Optics, and I know he reads some of these threads. It would be interesting to know if anyone from Zeiss read the recent discussions about the FL.

Steve · Oct 5, 2004

B

Curtis Im not one to gossip but in this case I assure you a WHALE or two have read it !!

Pinewood · Oct 5, 2004

Family resemblances

Some of you might want to look at this Eagle Optics glass:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=3001

Then compare it to this Vixen glass:

http://www.vixen-global.com/Binoculars/forester.htm

Then look at Eagle's posting of the Swift Audubon:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=2399

Rather like looking at triplets, is it not? Are there any "European" brands from the same family?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :egghead:

Jeff Bouton · Oct 5, 2004

Steve said:
Jeff, Not sure it was wise to show your hand as an optics expert as we have Huge fish from other optics companies as members and they wanted to stay anon so they wouldnt get the E mails of why or how or even complaints!! One or two of them have been using BF as a guide to what customers want for many months. It would also be Better for all concerned if you answered any Leica enquiries on the forum, this way if by chance your wrong about the opposition, it wont come back and Bite you

No worries Steve,

When you have superior product there is no need to mention the opposition, besides I hadn't noticed there was any!!!!....

(take that, you other lurkers and big fish!)

Best,

Jeff Bouton
Port Charlotte, FL

PS - I've by no means shown myself as an "optics expert" merely a lucky birder who got hired by an optics company!

Leif · Oct 5, 2004

Pinewood said:
Some of you might want to look at this Eagle Optics glass:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=3001

Then compare it to this Vixen glass:

http://www.vixen-global.com/Binoculars/forester.htm

Then look at Eagle's posting of the Swift Audubon:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=19&purch=1&pid=2399

Rather like looking at triplets, is it not? Are there any "European" brands from the same family?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :egghead:

See here:

http://www.birdnet.co.uk/binoculars/bresser.html

The one on the far left looks like an RSPB glass, the one in the middle looks like those above, and the one on the right also looks like various other binoculars.

Pentax/Minox - one and the same? (1 Viewer)

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