Ring-necked duck or hybrid? (1 Viewer)

Chabi · Oct 17, 2005

Hi friends:

I took this photos in Catalina Garcia , a very small lake in Fuerteventura (Canary Island). In a first moment I hadn´t no doubts, a Ring-necked duck however watching the photos in my house I think that could be an hybrid of Ring-necked duck x Tufted duck.

What do you think??

dbradnum · Oct 17, 2005

Hard to be certain from just two photos, but I think you're probably right.

The bill pattern is pretty good for Ring-necked, but the head profile is too rounded for my liking (RN has a very angular shape, rising to a peak at the back of the head), and there is no sign of the silvery grey vertical spur at the front of the flank patch, which pure ring-necked should always show.

snapper · Oct 17, 2005

I think you will find this is a Male Tufted Duck.

London Birder · Oct 17, 2005

although bill pattern looks good for Ring-necked this looks a bit like a hybrid to me ...the crown shape is a bit rounded, lacking Ring-necked's peaked rear-crown, also the flank patch is a bit too rounded at the front, not sure if I can make out any grey on the back which would indicate Pochard or Greater Scaup blood ... doesn't appear to be 100% RND

London Birder · Oct 17, 2005

snapper said:
I think you will find this is a Male Tufted Duck.

a very RND like bill-pattern if this is a Tufty !

choupique1 · Oct 17, 2005

ring neck scaup hybrid.......

Chabi · Oct 17, 2005

I´m secure that it isn´t a Tafted Duck , a bird who I watched in Spain in some wetlands. I watched this bird more than 30 min. and the coloration (more purple), and the white of the bill pattern is of an Ring-necked duck but, however the head.....

Chabi · Oct 17, 2005

One more photo

One more photo

snapper · Oct 17, 2005

London Birder said:
a very RND like bill-pattern if this is a Tufty !

Hi I am dont Disagreeing with you because I have never seen a RND not even a picture of one but here's a picture I took of what I would say was a Tufted Duck I must be missing something don't be to harsh I am only learning. Regards Snapper.

Chabi · Oct 17, 2005

A good photo Snapper¡ but I think it´s different to my photo bird. I lost to say in the last post that Catalina Garcia lagoon is one of the few places in Spain where every year you can watch Ring- necked Duck.

London Birder · Oct 17, 2005

snapper said:
Hi I am dont Disagreeing with you because I have never seen a RND not even a picture of one but here's a picture I took of what I would say was a Tufted Duck I must be missing something don't be to harsh I am only learning. Regards Snapper.

promise I won't be harsh ... every birder is still learning...yep Snapper, that's certainly a Tufted Duck...if you compare the bill patterns however you will see that the 'mystery bird' shows a white border around the base and a very prominent pale band toward the tip of the bill and a dark tip which runs over the end of the bill, all typical of RND ... as your photo illustrates, pure Tufted Duck doesn't show the pale band at the base and the white band near the tip isn't as well pronounced...another RND feature are the slightly sullied greyish flanks particularly towards the rear (though male Tufted Ducks show greyish-buff here when in eclipse) ... a minor point also is the birds carriage, RND's often swim with the tail held up (in fact most Aythya ducks do but RND appears to do so more regularly) ... however, it's not a pure RND due to the points listed above....

judging by the head shape I'm wondering if one of it's parents may be Redhead (Aythya americana)?

snapper · Oct 17, 2005

London Birder said:
promise I won't be harsh ... every birder is still learning...yep Snapper, that's certainly a Tufted Duck...if you compare the bill patterns however you will see that the 'mystery bird' shows a white border around the base and a very prominent pale band toward the tip of the bill and a dark tip which runs over the end of the bill, all typical of RND ... as your photo illustrates, pure Tufted Duck doesn't show the pale band at the base and the white band near the tip isn't as well pronounced...another RND feature are the slightly sullied greyish flanks particularly towards the rear (though male Tufted Ducks show greyish-buff here when in eclipse) ... a minor point also is the birds carriage, RND's often swim with the tail held up (in fact most Aythya ducks do but RND appears to do so more regularly) ... however, it's not a pure RND due to the points listed above....

judging by the head shape I'm wondering if one of it's parents may be Redhead (Aythya americana)?

Thanks very much London Birdier for the lesson I can see it now on the 3rd image. Best Regards Snapper.

Bluetail · Oct 17, 2005

I'm sure it's a hybrid, probably RND x Tufted Duck. I started off wondering why it wasn't a pure Tuftie. After all, they do show white behind the black bill tip which can vary from being quite subtle to very obvious. The main problem for me is the bill feathering. Tufted Duck shows a nicely rounded border on the sides of the bill and the feathering on top of the bill extends forward in a sharp point (shown well the second photo on this page: http://www.utahbirds.org/birdsofutah/BirdsS-Z/TuftedDuck.htm In RND the feathering is similar but rather more square, as here: http://www.waders.org/photos/washington/2003-04-14_14-55-37.html. The extensive black tip is an RND feature too.

I can't say I've noticed it in the field, but photos on the net seem consistently to show RND having a more orangey-yellow eye than Tufted Duck. If this is a valid feature, then it's another RND feature in Chabi's bird.

Also the flanks look greyish, not the pure white of Tufted Duck.

Edit: And of course the white border to the bill base as London Birder mentioned.

James Eaton · Oct 17, 2005

Couldn't the bird just be a Ring-necked Duck coming out/into eclipse? Though some features aren't 100% for an adult male Ring-necked Duck, ie the white around the base of the bill, scruffy flanks, couldn't this just been down to eclipse/immaturity?

Also its October, Canary Islands are full of american shorebirds and ducks at present, I'd be surprised if it had Tufted Duck genes in there.

Bluetail · Oct 17, 2005

I've only ever seen one RND in eclipse plumage, but it still had the characteristic head shape. Whether that's typical I don't know, but I would have thought so.

Good point about the timing and location, though, which does make Tuftie input less likely. I had wondered whether RND x Lesser Scaup was a possibility, but didn't like to mention it. That could have occurred in the US of course.

London Birder · Oct 17, 2005

I don't think it's a pure RND with that head shape, the crown peak appears to be in front of or over the eye; still can't be certain if I can see grey in the mantle ... I think head shape looks rather more akin to Greater Scaup/Redhead

James Eaton · Oct 17, 2005

I wouldn't like to judge head shape or posture with these photographs. Aythyas can look remarkably different in the field compared to a photograph. Flanks feathers are all over the place, hiding its mantle to my eyes. Bird shows a nice purple gloss to the head too.

London Birder · Oct 17, 2005

I think the evaluation of head shape in these photo's isn't too difficult ... I don't ever recall seeing a RND whether alert or asleep ever show anything other than a fairly distinctive high rear-crown ... either wild or captive ... as for head gloss in Ayhtya's, I personally put little faith in this as any clue to the ID, I've watched flocks of Tufty's show both a purple sheen and green sheen on the head merely relative to the angle of the bird and light conditions, and often on the same bird ... same for the Scaup and RND's at my local collection

Bluetail · Oct 17, 2005

James has a point though. Do a search of RND photos on the surfbirds site and you'll see a number with apparently round heads. However they do all show the white peak on the fore-flanks which I would have expected to show up on at least one of Chabi's photos if this were a pure RND.

Chabi · Oct 18, 2005

I have two more photos but of bad quality.

Ring-necked duck or hybrid? (1 Viewer)

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