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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

ED50 Advice - Please! (1 Viewer)

johnhub

Relatively newbie birder
Hi everyone

Sorry if this has been covered before, but I have done a bit of a search. I've more or less made my mind up to get an ED50, but am unsure whether to buy the body and eyepiece separately or go for a bundle. I've seen one with a 13-30 zoom, but I'll admit I'm baffled by the range of eyepieces available.

I wear glasses so eye relief is an issue - I'm kind of thinking the 27x would be the best option? I'm really not fussed about zooming, and I guess at 27x magnification the zoom is going to be much dimmer than the 27x fixed focus?

I'd be really grateful for any wisdom here!

Cheers
John
 
A fixed 27x lens will gather more light than a zoom at the same magnification (using the same scope, obviously a 80mm HD at 27x would most likely, be brighter). The 27x is probably the most widely used lens, and offers better eye relief than the zoom for specs wearers. I use an older generation 20x MC with fold down eyecup on mine (I too wear glasses) and find that I get the same FOV as if I dont wear glasses.
Hope this is of some use.
 
A fixed power eyepiece is not necessarily brighter than a zoom at the same magnification...same size exit pupil ,very similar amount of light..perhaps the transmission changes a bit,based in the number of lenses involved,but not the most significant difference ,in my opinion..But in the Nikon particular case,the eye relief advantage is very significant and so is the Field of View (with the Wide and DS eyepieces)...the 27X wide has a larger FOV that the zoom at 13X, so the apparent view is much more expansive, and with the increase in eye relief,much comfortable too...
This said the small zoom 13-30 X seemed to me painfully dark at the end of the zoom range,whilst the larger 13-40X, held brightness a bit better ,even at 40X.
 
I agree with everything posted by mayoayo except that I don't find a brightness difference between the 13-30 and 13-40 zooms, so long as the former is of recent vintage (coatings have improved over the many years it has been manufactured).

Get the 27x--it is no brighter than the zoom, but the much wider view and longer eye relief make viewing much more enjoyable, with no need for fiddling with zoom controls. The zoom makes more sense with the 82ED, where it offers 75x view. The difference between 27x and either 30 or 40x is trivial.

--AP
 
Zoom or Fixed

Johnhub,

I agree with mayoayo on the older 13-30 zoom - I would not buy it. I think someone on this forum has likened it to looking through a drinking straw and having tried it I have to agree. If you want a zoom go for the newer 13-40 MC2 with the twist-up eye cup.

FWIW I have an ED50 with the 13-40 MC2 zoom and the 27x eyepieces because I knew I would forever be wondering what the other one looked like if I only had the one. Both are great lenses, but after about two years the zoom stays on the telescope almost all the time, apart from when I occasionally put the 27x on the scope to check I'm not missing anything. I prefer the zoom because I seldom need as much as 27X magnification. I suspect that a number of people on this forum are great fans of the 20X fixed lens for this reason. The 40X top end of the MC2 zoom is very useable and great for occasional use, atmospheric conditions permitting. However you will find plenty of others who prefer the fixed 27X so it's worth searching threads for all the advice that's been given before - particularly by those who wear glasses,

I also agree with mayoayo on the light gathering at the same magnification. A number of times I have tried to get a brighter view at dusk by switching to the 27X and do not get a noticeably brighter view than approximately 27x with the zoom. However, I always get a brighter view by zooming out at dusk - which is another reason I prefer the zoom. Sometimes it's great to sacrifice magnification for brightness at dusk, or an especially dull cloudy day.

I always recommend trying things for yourself preferably at a "field day" or a shop with good viewing facilities. This is even more important as you wear glasses. Failing that you can buy stuff on line "on approval" to check it out. Eyepieces are relatively easy to return compared with scopes !

However, is the 27X is still available in the UK ? Make sure it's not the digiscoping DS version, which doesn't have an eyecup.

Regards

Mark
 
The advantages of the DS version is the very wide FOV and the huge ER. In fact, one does not even need to press one's eye against the eye cup, which is a boon in humid conditions as the eyepiece or one's glasses don't get fogged up so easily.
 
Thirteens,..........Twentysevens,..Therties and Forties,.Oh My!

Specifications for both zooms are equal (up to 30x of course),except that the 13-40X has a 1.1mm more eye relief ...both are tight in that regard,(12.5mm and 14mm respectively @ 13X) but the 13-30X gets very hard for Eyeglass users at high power..That is probably why it was so hard to get a good image with It ,while the 13-40X was a bit more forgiving..Their eye relief is similar to the Baader Hyperion Zoom,but the Baader has a MUCH larger FOV

Both Nikon Zooms FOV are equal too..They are actually only a TAD narrower than most other zooms , Starting at 38.5º, while ,for instance ,the Swarovski Zoom starts at 40º..But The Swaro Zoom has MUCH better eye relief

So in fact Is the acumulation of those shortages that makes the Nikon Zooms harder to Use than other Zooms..Image wise ,they are very good


.............Specifications also indicate that the Eye relief and FOV are exact in the 27XWA and the 27X DS...so no advantages or handicaps in one or other versions ,in those regards.
I prefer the MC Wide design,compared with the huge diameter of the DS Ocular end.
I dont see the need for the whole DS series ,or their absurd(?)design,except to intrude with other third party or Home made digiscoping adapters in favor of Nikon´s own adapters..I had a Digiscoping adapter..a 52mm tube that I used with Swaro eyepieces,Vixen and Nikon WA,but ,Of course cant Use with the 27xDS....It would have been easier to design a digiscoping adapter for the WA series ,Me thinks...Unless We are missing something and the eyepieces are not exactly the same..FWIW,once You have an adapter for It( I made my own again),the 27X DS is great for Digiscoping...
 
Unfortunately, Nikon has never managed to come up with a zoom eyepiece that has sufficient eye relief for glasses wearers. That plus the narrower FOV make using the zooms a hassle. Thus, I definitely think a fixed magnification eyepiece must have top priority for those who need to keep their glasses on while using the scope (like when you have astigmatism).

And I very much discourage getting the older zoom. That model is particularly terrible in all the respects others have already mentioned.
 
Many thanks for all the knowledgeable observations. I think it's going to be fixed, probably 27x.

Cheers
John
 
Interesting feedback in this topic. I bought a scope with 13-40x earlier this year (last in stock) and I wear glasses too. I find the far end of the zoom 30-40x hard to use with glasses, it's do-able, but not very comfy. Having read the feedback about larger FOV with the 27x I'm beginning to doubt if I should get one if they're still available.

As to the initial TS question. I would always go for a package deal and get the scope and eyepiece at the same time. You need both to make use of the scope anyway so take the advantage of a bundle ;)
 
A fixed power eyepiece is not necessarily brighter than a zoom at the same magnification...same size exit pupil ,very similar amount of light..perhaps the transmission changes a bit,based in the number of lenses involved,but not the most significant difference ,in my opinion..But in the Nikon particular case,the eye relief advantage is very significant and so is the Field of View (with the Wide and DS eyepieces)...the 27X wide has a larger FOV that the zoom at 13X, so the apparent view is much more expansive, and with the increase in eye relief,much comfortable too...
This said the small zoom 13-30 X seemed to me painfully dark at the end of the zoom range,whilst the larger 13-40X, held brightness a bit better ,even at 40X.

40x with a 50mm objective in the daytime ? I guess that would be great for looking at your floaters.
 
Many thanks for all the knowledgeable observations. I think it's going to be fixed, probably 27x.

Cheers
John


For Me,right now,the 27X DS is a great compromise for the ED50,but other options like the 20XWA ,or even the 16xDS are also amazing ..The little bit of extra resolution results in more detail of certain type,but the image is on the limit of getting dim,and there is other type of detail that gets lost ,due to lack og brightness....The 20X WA is also exceptional ,truly keeping in great balance the large FOV ,the brightness and the resolution..plus added stability and improved DOF..Important to very Important with the use of a light weight tripod,as I suposse You would like to Use with the ED50..
 
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