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Hen Harriers go missing ... again (1 Viewer)

I hope they informed the wildlife crime police. In the interview on Unsprung with an officer he clearly said all crimes should be reported.
 
... and now a fifth has 'conveniently' vanished (see - http://www.express.co.uk/news/natur...isappearance-Britain-s-rarest-bird-extinction). It's the sheer brazenness of it that gets me. To continue this persecution - and only persecution can explain such atypical disappearances - knowing full well the glare of publicity will be thrown on the case demonstrates that these people think they're untouchable and beyond the law. Sickening.

John, the sad reality is the real perpetrators of these crimes are beyond the law.
 
John, the sad reality is the real perpetrators of these crimes are beyond the law.

Good to hear from you Grahame - it's a very long time since our paths first crossed on Portland. As for the persecution of Hen Harrier, I fear you're right, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do our utmost to publicise such events and agitate for change.
 
Good to hear from you Grahame - it's a very long time since our paths first crossed on Portland. As for the persecution of Hen Harrier, I fear you're right, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do our utmost to publicise such events and agitate for change.

John, I am sorry if it sounded like I was accepting the situation we find ourselves in which is not the case. Of course you are right, it is no time to throw the towel in, we must continue to fight for change even if it feels at times like we are ....... into the wind.
 
John, I am sorry if it sounded like I was accepting the situation we find ourselves in which is not the case. Of course you are right, it is no time to throw the towel in, we must continue to fight for change even if it feels at times like we are ....... into the wind.

I didn't take it that way, but merely thought the point about continuing to fight 'our' corner' despite the odds was worth making.
 
So can anyone with expert knowledge tell us why they cannot employ the Langholm method-gamekeepers leaving dead chickens on feeding posts for the Hen Harriers? They then don't hunt the gamebirds and everyone is a winner-so simple but effective, apparently.
Contrast this with the Geltside and Bowland method whereby a lot of time and effort is wasted in watching the nests.Meanwhile the males are killed elsewhere whilst nobody is looking!
 
So can anyone with expert knowledge tell us why they cannot employ the Langholm method-gamekeepers leaving dead chickens on feeding posts for the Hen Harriers? They then don't hunt the gamebirds and everyone is a winner-so simple but effective, apparently.
Contrast this with the Geltside and Bowland method whereby a lot of time and effort is wasted in watching the nests.Meanwhile the males are killed elsewhere whilst nobody is looking!

Ban shooting and the problem should go away.
 
We are looking for some practical solution!
So assuming shooting will carry on and the Langholm gamekeepers have reached a pragmatic solution which works,why are we wasting time staring at nests every year-the killers are taking us for fools!
 
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A farmer who poisoned 16 birds of prey, a raven, a cat, five dogs and six foxes has just been sentenced to two years in prison, disqualified from involvement with animals (wild & domestic) for several years and fined a total of over £85,000 (some going to a conservation project). Damn shame it was in Spain - see https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2015/06/09/now-thats-a-deterrent/

Such punishment might not entirely solve the problem - raptor poisoning remains a big problem in Spain - but it'd help!
 
The subject was covered on Channel 4 news tonight.
Apparently the shooting fraternity and the conservationists are working together to encourage breeding Hen Harriers.They also indicated the dreadful Spring Weather had something to do with the situation!
 
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l watched Channel 4 news again and..........apparently the male Hen Hariers could have perished or moved on and yes, the bad weather might be the cause.
Odd it was only the male Hen Hariers which disappeared and not the poor females left shivering on their nests waiting for the males to return.
The shooter who told us this is an ex Police wildlife officer who said there is no evidence that Hen Harriers have ever been persecuted in this area of Bowland.
It really is time to get together with the shooters and gamekeepers by providing dead chickens on feeding posts.
The system works in Langholm so why not here?The last I heard there were five breeding pairs.
The days of wasting time, effort and money watching nests, whilst the disappearance of the males occurs elsewhere are surely over.
The shooters and conservationists have an opportunity to get together between now and next Spring to come up with a PRACTICAL solution which satisfies both groups.This should include the Police.Part of their remit,I understand,is to to prevent crime before it occurs.
Let's go for it!
 
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l watched Channel 4 news again and..........apparently the male Hen Hariers could have perished or moved on and yes, the bad weather might be the cause.
Odd it was only the male Hen Hariers which disappeared and not the poor females left shivering on their nests waiting for the males to return.
The shooter who told us this is an ex Police wildlife officer who said there is no evidence that Hen Harriers have ever been persecuted in this area of Bowland.
It really is time to get together with the shooters and gamekeepers by providing dead chickens on feeding posts.
The system works in Langholm so why not here?The last I heard there were five breeding pairs.
The days of wasting time, effort and money watching nests, whilst the disappearance of the males occurs elsewhere are surely over.
The shooters and conservationists have an opportunity to get together between now and next Spring to come up with a PRACTICAL solution which satisfies both groups.This should include the Police.Part of their remit,I understand,is to to prevent crime before it occurs.
Let's go for it!

It's all a nice idea, but I'm not convinced the shooting fraternity in England are bothered about compromise in the slightest bit. Time and time again they've shown a casual and blatant disregard for the law, and penalties are so paltry and crime so difficult to detect it's completely cost effective for them to take the occasional hit of a fine. They're more interested in a targeted campaign of discrediting the RSPB (see Botham and his idiotic comments), and attempts to turn the public against birds of prey (see Songbird Survival) than engaging with conservationists.

That and the fact we have a government consisting mainly of hunting-shooting-fishing millionaires, who waited approximately seven minutes after re-entering Downing Street before announcing a will to reintroduce foxhunting, will make them feel they've got allies who will help them get everything they want in this matter. This will have bolstered them to take a political tack to get what they want, not compromise. They don't want to feed Hen Harriers chickens, they want a license to shoot raptors out of the skies, or at least have a blind eye turned while they do so, and they have no interest in working with us townie treehuggers who think that the nation's wildlife is more important that a few rich blokes getting their jollies.
 
It's all a nice idea, but I'm not convinced the shooting fraternity in England are bothered about compromise in the slightest bit. Time and time again they've shown a casual and blatant disregard for the law, and penalties are so paltry and crime so difficult to detect it's completely cost effective for them to take the occasional hit of a fine. They're more interested in a targeted campaign of discrediting the RSPB (see Botham and his idiotic comments), and attempts to turn the public against birds of prey (see Songbird Survival) than engaging with conservationists.

That and the fact we have a government consisting mainly of hunting-shooting-fishing millionaires, who waited approximately seven minutes after re-entering Downing Street before announcing a will to reintroduce foxhunting, will make them feel they've got allies who will help them get everything they want in this matter. This will have bolstered them to take a political tack to get what they want, not compromise. They don't want to feed Hen Harriers chickens, they want a license to shoot raptors out of the skies, or at least have a blind eye turned while they do so, and they have no interest in working with us townie treehuggers who think that the nation's wildlife is more important that a few rich blokes getting their jollies.

Pete, you took the words right out of mouth. And on top of that Natural England has had their funding cut to such a degree as to warrant them virtually powerless. And no doubt with more cuts to come.
 
The last I heard there were five breeding pairs.
QUOTE]

There were 12 pairs last year according to website so it seems there has been a huge decline at Langholm as well this year if the 5 pairs figure is right!! Not good news!

Ryan-it was a figure I vaguely remember hearing somewhere so don't hold me to it.Whatever the figure both numbers are higher than Bowland.
 
http://www.langholmproject.com/
It is worth having a look at this website about the Langholm Project where the gamekeepers feed the male Hen Harriers dead chicks so they don't hunt game birds.Click on the Diversionary Feeding link to find out more-it isn't Rocket Science!
Compare this with the Bowland Hen Harrier project where observers watch the nests, with the females on them whilst the Hen Harriers disappear elsewhere.
I first became aware of this project last year when Radio 4 did an informative programme about it.
They interviewed one of the gamekeepers.Far from being a narrow-eyed,green wellied-character, right out of The Wickerman,he came across as a decent human being.He explained how the feeding-post system operated and how it distracted the males from the game birds.He really wanted the Hen Harriers to succeed -so where there is a will there is a way.
 
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http://www.langholmproject.com/
It is worth having a look at this website about the Langholm Project where the gamekeepers feed the male Hen Harriers dead chicks so they don't hunt game birds.Click on the Diversionary Feeding link to find out more-it isn't Rocket Science!
Compare this with the Bowland Hen Harrier project where observers watch the nests, with the females on them whilst the Hen Harriers disappear elsewhere.
I first became aware of this project last year when Radio 4 did an informative programme about it.
They interviewed one of the gamekeepers.Far from being a narrow-eyed,green wellied-character, right out of The Wickerman,he came across as a decent human being.He explained how the feeding-post system operated and how it distracted the males from the game birds.He really wanted the Hen Harriers to succeed -so where there is a will there is a way.

All very good, but I'm sure many English gamekeepers will be very well aware of these schemes, and are still more wont to reach for the rifle rather than raid the freezer for some chickens. I would love for the wider shooting community to act like this and find pragmatic, legal ways to minimise their losses from wild predators, but forgive me for being very, very sceptical that most of the keepers in England have the slightest interest in doing so.

Don't forget the big difference between Langholm and Bowland - vicarious liability.
 
All very good, but I'm sure many English gamekeepers will be very well aware of these schemes, and are still more wont to reach for the rifle rather than raid the freezer for some chickens. I would love for the wider shooting community to act like this and find pragmatic, legal ways to minimise their losses from wild predators, but forgive me for being very, very sceptical that most of the keepers in England have the slightest interest in doing so.

Don't forget the big difference between Langholm and Bowland - vicarious liability.

Exactly as Ive said before Pete. If the keepers really wanted to undertake diversionary feeding they could do so quite easily. They don't want to though.
 
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