New 8.5x42 ELs (1 Viewer)

Hi everyone. After lurking around these forums for a couple of months I have finally taken the plunge and purchased a new pair of 8.5x42 ELs and I couldn't be more pleased.

I initially visited the store to check out a scope but made the mistake of asking to have a look through some binoculars just before I left. Needless to say, that night I couldn't get the images out of my head. Consequently I decided to upgrade my binos before purchasing a scope, and raced back to the store to purchase them the next day.

I am new to birding, but I must say my enjoyment has increased significantly since using the Swarovski's. I find myself grinning everytime I look through them. The brightness and detail are amazing.

Michele

Jaffnut said:

Hi everyone. After lurking around these forums for a couple of months I have finally taken the plunge and purchased a new pair of 8.5x42 ELs and I couldn't be more pleased.

I initially visited the store to check out a scope but made the mistake of asking to have a look through some binoculars just before I left. Needless to say, that night I couldn't get the images out of my head. Consequently I decided to upgrade my binos before purchasing a scope, and raced back to the store to purchase them the next day.

I am new to birding, but I must say my enjoyment has increased significantly since using the Swarovski's. I find myself grinning everytime I look through them. The brightness and detail are amazing.

Michele

Click to expand...

Hello Michele and welcome to BF!

You have got yourself a fantastic binocular which will enhance your hobby and give you many many years of pleasure i'm sure. B

Jaffnut said:

Hi everyone. After lurking around these forums for a couple of months I have finally taken the plunge and purchased a new pair of 8.5x42 ELs and I couldn't be more pleased.

I initially visited the store to check out a scope but made the mistake of asking to have a look through some binoculars just before I left. Needless to say, that night I couldn't get the images out of my head. Consequently I decided to upgrade my binos before purchasing a scope, and raced back to the store to purchase them the next day.

I am new to birding, but I must say my enjoyment has increased significantly since using the Swarovski's. I find myself grinning everytime I look through them. The brightness and detail are amazing.

Michele

Click to expand...

Michelle, My Belle,

Congrats! on taking the plunge w/out being eaten by the sharks! OTOH, from what I've seen of down under optics prices, you might feel like you've lost an arm or leg after the purchase.

Are these the new SV EL version or WB?

For a newbie birder, you set a high standard for yourself in buying an EL. Even if you bought the "WB," it will be quite some time before you need to upgrade again. Just don't go back to the store and try the SV EL!

Keep grinning!

Brock

brocknroller said:

Michelle, My Belle,

Congrats! on taking the plunge w/out being eaten by the sharks! OTOH, from what I've seen of down under optics prices, you might feel like you've lost an arm or leg after the purchase.

Are these the new SV EL version or WB?

For a newbie birder, you set a high standard for yourself in buying an EL. Even if you bought the "WB," it will be quite some time before you need to upgrade again. Just don't go back to the store and try the SV EL!

Keep grinning!

Brock

Click to expand...

The problem is I did try the SV EL and that's what I ended up purchasing, and yes the Aussie price has almost bankrupt me but I've got no regrets

Jaffnut said:

The problem is I did try the SV EL and that's what I ended up purchasing, and yes the Aussie price has almost bankrupt me but I've got no regrets

Click to expand...

According to Dennis, the SV EL's were made by the hand of god, so consider your purchase an "indulgence" to the Church for your sins.

If you have no regrets, I assume you don't see the bloomin' "rolling ball" while panning, correct?

Which bins did the SV EL replace and how do they compare?

Brock

brocknroller said:

According to Dennis, the SV EL's were made by the hand of god, so consider your purchase an "indulgence" to the Church for your sins.

If you have no regrets, I assume you don't see the bloomin' "rolling ball" while panning, correct?

Which bins did the SV EL replace and how do they compare?

Brock

Click to expand...

Hi Brock,

No I haven't noticed the rolling ball effect yet. My old bins are a pair of Gerber 10x32s, and there is no comparison. The Gerbers were ok for a first pair, but I found they suffered from kidney beaning and I often thought the image was a bit blurry (not sharp), possibly explaining why I always ended up with a headache after using them. FOV and shaking were also minor problems.

With respect to the SV ELs, I still can't quite believe the quality of the image they provide - it's as though there is no glass there whatsoever.

Still grinning,

Michele

brocknroller said:

According to Dennis, the SV EL's were made by the hand of god, so consider your purchase an "indulgence" to the Church for your sins.

Brock

Click to expand...

So if Dennis has since sold his SV's does that mean he's an atheist now?

I wouldn't worry too much about the price, Michele. The SV is a lifer if ever there was one. It's been the holy grail for me anyway. My (full-sized) quest has ended.

Mark

Kammerdiner said:

So if Dennis has since sold his SV's does that mean he's an atheist now?

I wouldn't worry too much about the price, Michele. The SV is a lifer if ever there was one. It's been the holy grail for me anyway. My (full-sized) quest has ended.

Mark

Click to expand...

Just sold the SV's. I decided I prefer the Zeiss 8x32 FL's for the birding I do. The Zeiss are smaller and lighter and that is VERY important to me. The SV's have a LITTLE better optics but to some the rolling ball and different view is not that appealing. I decided slightly less sharp edges don't bother me that much to get the total package the Zeiss has. One thing about the SV's that started bothering me after I had them awhile was it seems there is a zone from slightly off center of the on-axis image to almost the edge where it is slightly blurry and then the edge is sharp again. It is like there is a zone where it is not quite as sharp as the center or the edge. Has anyone else experienced that? It is kind of strange once you realize it is there.

Jaffnut said:

The problem is I did try the SV EL and that's what I ended up purchasing, and yes the Aussie price has almost bankrupt me but I've got no regrets

Click to expand...

If money is the Root of All Evil, you did well to divest yourself of it for a pair of 8.5 SV/EL. I found it (eventually) an effective cure for Binocular Obsession. Congrats, and enjoy your new binos, I've had mine since they were released and I'm still delighted with them! BTW, if you look for Rolling Ball, you will probably find it (try panning quite quickly along a line of pine trees), but if you continue to use the binos, you won't see the Rolling Ball after a while (unless of course you go looking for it again, if you know what I mean).

[email protected] said:

It is like there is a zone where it is not quite as sharp as the center or the edge. Has anyone else experienced that? It is kind of strange once you realize it is there.

Click to expand...

Frankly, no. I do find that when using any binos that aren't SV's, for example my beloved EII's, my eyes register the fuzzy edges even when I'm looking in the centre. I find this kind of annoying, in a luxurious, self-satisfied kind of way. As if I drove a Porsche, but occasionally used a spare Toyota, just to remind myself that the Porsche was sitting at home in the driveway.

[email protected] said:

Just sold the SV's. I decided I prefer the Zeiss 8x32 FL's for the birding I do. The Zeiss are smaller and lighter and that is VERY important to me. The SV'a have a LITTLE better optics but to some the rolling ball and different view is not that appealing. I decided slightly less sharp edges don't bother me that much to get the total package the Zeiss has. One thing about the SV's that started bothering me after I had them awhile was it seems there is a zone from slightly off center of the on-axis image to almost the edge where it is slightly blurry and then the edge is sharp again. It is like there is a zone where it is not quite as sharp as the center or the edge. Has anyone else experienced that? It is kind of strange once you realize it is there.

Click to expand...

Who won the "pool" this time?

OMG! How much grief did I get from people including you when I mentioned that I would most likely be bothered by the "waving mustache effect" and now I find THAT was the reason you sold the binoculars handmade by god? It's that transition between the two "zones" you're probably seeing.

I guess the only question that remains is if you have become an atheist now?

Don't worry, that edge distortion in the FLs will eventually get to you too. We will get a new "pool" going!

Well, I'm glad you returned to "The One" philosophy and got me off the hook. I said that if you kept the SV EL for a year, I would look through one and buy it if I liked it.

You might have just saved me $2,349 (probably more since I would have had to buy it on credit).

Brock

Jaffnut said:

Hi Brock,

No I haven't noticed the rolling ball effect yet. My old bins are a pair of Gerber 10x32s, and there is no comparison. The Gerbers were ok for a first pair, but I found they suffered from kidney beaning and I often thought the image was a bit blurry (not sharp), possibly explaining why I always ended up with a headache after using them. FOV and shaking were also minor problems.

With respect to the SV ELs, I still can't quite believe the quality of the image they provide - it's as though there is no glass there whatsoever.

Still grinning,

Michele

Click to expand...

Just noticed the spelling of your name with one "l," which means you are probably not a "belle". Sorry, "It's a mixed up muddled up, shook up world, except for Lola, L-L-Lola..."

I'm glad you included the word "yet". As you can see from Dennis' post, it can apparently have a delayed effect for some people. He didn't see it at all when he first bought the bins and told others it was a "non-issue".

His experience is not typical, however. In fact, it's usually the opposite with "rolling ball". Some people see it but quickly adapt to it or eventually adapt to it over a period of minutes, days, or weeks.

I've only read one other report of someone initially not seeing "rolling ball" and then a week or so later seeing it. So the odds are in your favor.

Well, of course the SV ELs are going to be much better than a bin made by a baby food company!

Not sure if they sell down under, but in the states, Gerber is a leading baby food manufacturer. Never heard of Gerber bins.

I've read the same comment "it's as though there is no glass there whatsoever" from others about the SV EL. No doubt, it is a top notch bin, but it's too pricey for my wallet. I'm waiting for a Chinese clone.

I was going to open my message with a "G'day" but then I read this article. Apparently, it's become gauche for a foreigner to greet an Aussie this way...

http://www.cnngo.com/sydney/life/goodbye-gday-mate-708780\

G'bye!

Brock

Brock, Jaffnut/Michele is female. I am glad she got the Swarovision and likes it and is happy.:t:

brocknroller said:

Just noticed the spelling of your name with one "l," which means you are probably not a "belle". Sorry, "It's a mixed up muddled up, shook up world, except for Lola, L-L-Lola..."

I'm glad you included the word "yet". As you can see from Dennis' post, it can apparently have a delayed effect for some people. He didn't see it at all when he first bought the bins and told others it was a "non-issue".

His experience is not typical, however. In fact, it's usually the opposite with "rolling ball". Some people see it but quickly adapt to it or eventually adapt to it over a period of minutes, days, or weeks.

I've only read one other report of someone initially not seeing "rolling ball" and then a week or so later seeing it. So the odds are in your favor.

Well, of course the SV ELs are going to be much better than a bin made by a baby food company!

Not sure if they sell down under, but in the states, Gerber is a leading baby food manufacturer. Never heard of Gerber bins.

I've read the same comment "it's as though there is no glass there whatsoever" from others about the SV EL. No doubt, it is a top notch bin, but it's too pricey for my wallet. I'm waiting for a Chinese clone.

I was going to open my message with a "G'day" but then I read this article. Apparently, it's become gauche for a foreigner to greet an Aussie this way...

http://www.cnngo.com/sydney/life/goodbye-gday-mate-708780\

G'bye!

Brock

Click to expand...

A couple of years ago a very wealthy buddy of mine; my oldest friend from grade school, who grew up poor like me but outgrew it, took his family along with all the grandchildren on a weeks long cruise on the Danube river in a brand new Cruise ship as part of a month's tour of Europe. He told me that everyone spoke English on the tour boat. The only ones he had problems understanding were the Australians.

Bob

Sancho said:

If money is the Root of All Evil, you did well to divest yourself of it for a pair of 8.5 SV/EL. I found it (eventually) an effective cure for Binocular Obsession. Congrats, and enjoy your new binos, I've had mine since they were released and I'm still delighted with them! BTW, if you look for Rolling Ball, you will probably find it (try panning quite quickly along a line of pine trees), but if you continue to use the binos, you won't see the Rolling Ball after a while (unless of course you go looking for it again, if you know what I mean).



Frankly, no. I do find that when using any binos that aren't SV's, for example my beloved EII's, my eyes register the fuzzy edges even when I'm looking in the centre. I find this kind of annoying, in a luxurious, self-satisfied kind of way. As if I drove a Porsche, but occasionally used a spare Toyota, just to remind myself that the Porsche was sitting at home in the driveway.

Click to expand...

Yes. I notice that about the EII's too even though the edges are a long way away with that huge FOV. You still can see that it is slightly fuzzy. When I would pan with the SV's I would notice a zone off-axis that was slightly less sharp than the edge or maybe it was some kind of an illusion because the edges are so sharp. Kind of weird actually. They are still the best binoculars I have seen optically. They are amazing how the view seems like you are not even looking through lenses although you know there are all kinds of lenses between the object you are looking at and your eye. Amazing how well they all work together and are so well corrected. They are every CLEAR! The Zeiss FL's are very close though and I don't think they use as much optical wizadry to get the view. The Zeiss FL's are every bit as bright though. I compared the Zeiss FL alot to the 8x30 EII's alot when I had them both and although they were about optically equal I personally preferred the FL view a little over the EII. The big reason the SV's are heavy is all those lenses they use to get that super flat corrected view.I really prefer a sub 20 oz. binocular lately. I can just hold them so much longer without fatigue. I bought a pair of Leica UV 8x20's off Astromart even though I don't like them that will because the price was so low. $375.00 shipped for BNIB. I got them and they looked perfect except it would take a gorilla to turn the focus wheel. I coudn't believe how tight it was! Leica's focus wheels are just tight and the 8x20's are made in Portugal and I think their QC is slipping because the overall binocular just looked shoddy and almost Chinese like. Got a quick refund on thoses babies. Good lesson. If something seems to good to be true it probably isn't.

brocknroller said:

Who won the "pool" this time?

OMG! How much grief did I get from people including you when I mentioned that I would most likely be bothered by the "waving mustache effect" and now I find THAT was the reason you sold the binoculars handmade by god? It's that transition between the two "zones" you're probably seeing.

I guess the only question that remains is if you have become an atheist now?

Don't worry, that edge distortion in the FLs will eventually get to you too. We will get a new "pool" going!

Well, I'm glad you returned to "The One" philosophy and got me off the hook. I said that if you kept the SV EL for a year, I would look through one and buy it if I liked it.

You might have just saved me $2,349 (probably more since I would have had to buy it on credit).

Brock

Click to expand...

I was seriously considering offering you the SV in trade for your collection of porro's. Could I have seduced you with that offer or would you never give up those EII's?

[email protected] said:

I was seriously considering offering you the SV in trade for your collection of porro's. Could I have seduced you with that offer or would you never give up those EII's?

Click to expand...

Sure you were!

No, even if you were serious, I wouldn't give up my 8x30 EII.

I would consider trading my two tens (EII and SE), not for an 8.5x SV EL, don't think I'd like the "waving mustache effect" any more than you do.

Perhaps for a 10x42 SLC-HD. The 10x42 SLC has been on my Wish List ever since I read Steve Ingraham's rave review:

http://betterviewdesired.com/Swarovski-10x42.php

My 8x EII is a "cherry". I'm bothered "fuzzy edges," and I don't see them with the 8x EII even while panning, which is when I'm usually bothered by it in bins with too much field curvature.

I do see the "pincushion effect" while panning along tree lines but it's not as extreme as the ZR 7x36 ED2 or the Swift 804 H/R FMC Audubon.

But, hey, thanks for the "almost" offer!

Brock

[email protected] said:

Just sold the SV's. I decided I prefer the Zeiss 8x32 FL's for the birding I do. The Zeiss are smaller and lighter and that is VERY important to me. The SV's have a LITTLE better optics but to some the rolling ball and different view is not that appealing. I decided slightly less sharp edges don't bother me that much to get the total package the Zeiss has. One thing about the SV's that started bothering me after I had them awhile was it seems there is a zone from slightly off center of the on-axis image to almost the edge where it is slightly blurry and then the edge is sharp again. It is like there is a zone where it is not quite as sharp as the center or the edge. Has anyone else experienced that? It is kind of strange once you realize it is there.

Click to expand...

Nope, not at all. Plus, the SV is substantially better than the 8x32 FL. I agree the FL is small and lightweight. That's why I'm keeping it. Great for travel. But it's no match for the SV, I don't think.

Notice how Dennis only criticizes something AFTER he sells it. Geesh.

Mark

[email protected] said:

... One thing about the SV's that started bothering me after I had them awhile was it seems there is a zone from slightly off center of the on-axis image to almost the edge where it is slightly blurry and then the edge is sharp again...

Click to expand...

That's the experience I have when looking through my Nikon 10x42 Venturer LX/HG.

--AP

Alexis Powell said:

That's the experience I have when looking through my Nikon 10x42 Venturer LX/HG.

--AP

Click to expand...

I had a similar experience with an old 10x42 SE. The sharpness started falling off slightly right off axis then got sharp again until about 75-80% out where there was a thin ring of fuzziness (astigmatism? spherical aberration?), then the image was sharp again almost to the edge.

I haven't checked my new sample to see if it's the same, and we're in monsoon season now, so I can't check it, but will when the sun makes a special guest appearance.

The owner of the old 10x SE noticed this too but didn't say anything because he wanted to see if I'd notice it without prompting. What? Me, not notice an imperfection in binoculars?

Note this was only noticeable with critical observation while slowly moving an object off axis. In practical use, most of the image was sharp.

When Steve Ingraham had his zbirding Website, I posted a message about this and he said that binoculars with field flatteners are not as sharp off-axis as on axis since the image gets stretched, which is why Zeiss chose to design the FL for the maximum sharpness on-axis and sacrifice edge sharpness to get that.

Someone, I think it was Kevin, called Ingraham a "chucklehead" and said that he was just trying to "pimp" Zeiss bins (not the exact word he used since it hadn't come into the BF lexicon yet, but to that effect).

EDz's technical report on the 12x50 SE ("three families) showed that while the SE was not as sharp off axis as the centerfield (are any binoculars?), sharpness was still very good (as measured in arc seconds) far off axis.

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1772

OTOH, users have consistently reported greater image resolution on-axis with the Zeiss FL than with other alphas (until the SV EL, I haven't read a "shoot off" btwn the SV EL and FL yet but that might put the case to rest).

Alexis Powell said:

That's the experience I have when looking through my Nikon 10x42 Venturer LX/HG.

--AP

Click to expand...

I had a similar experience with an old 10x42 SE. The sharpness started falling off slightly right off axis then got sharp again until about 75-80% out where there was a thin ring of fuzziness (astigmatism? spherical aberration?), then the image was sharp again almost to the edge.

I haven't checked my new sample to see if it's the same, and we're in "monsoon" season now, so I can't check it, but will when the sun makes a special guest appearance.

The owner of the old 10x SE noticed this slight fall off in sharpness too but didn't say anything because he wanted to see if I'd notice it without prompting. What? Me, not notice an imperfection in binoculars?

Note this was only noticeable with critical observation while slowly moving an object off axis. In practical use, most of the image was sharp.

When Steve Ingraham had his zbirding Website, I posted a message about this and he said that binoculars with field flatteners are not as sharp off-axis as on-axis since stretching the image reduces resolution.

He then went on to say this was why Zeiss chose to design the FL for the maximum sharpness on-axis to about 60% out and sacrifice edge sharpness to get that extra sharp centerfield.

Someone, I think it was Kevin, called Ingraham a "chucklehead" and said that he was just trying to "pimp" Zeiss bins (not the exact word he used since that word had yet to come into the BF lexicon, but to that effect).

EDz's technical report on the 12x50 SE ("three families) showed that while the SE was not as sharp off axis as in the centerfield (are any binoculars?), sharpness was still very good off axis (as measured in arc seconds).

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1772

That seemed to contradict Ingraham's comment.

OTOH, many users have reported greater image resolution on-axis with the Zeiss FL than with other alphas at least until the SV EL, I haven't read a "shoot off" btwn the SV EL and FL yet, but that would be interesting.

Anyway, this is one for the experts to duke out. My concern is with the "big picture" and to that end, my 10x42 SE works fine for me.

I only wish we had many more low humidity, clear and crisp nights like we did last weekend when I was able to utilize the SE's full potential for stargazing.

Brock