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New Zeiss Victory FL binoculars (1 Viewer)

Hi Ilkka

I too think that all top end roof prism bins available today have more CA than is really acceptable. (Maybe this is the curse of having a Nordic name?)

I tried the Leica Ultravid 8x42 yesterday (looking at scopes at an RSPB reserve, and couldn't resist spending 10 minutes outside with a pair) and was struck by the small size and the rather large amount of CA even in dull conditions. It was so obvious but is never mentioned in reviews.

Regarding the Zeiss, I reckon we should wait and see. Minox produce some bins with ED elements, including a 10x58, and they are said to have excellent contrast. Incidentally the Zeiss 8x30 BGAT, an old design, have almost no CA. Not being an optical designer, it's hard to comment further.
 
CDK said:
I contacted Zeiss in the UK today after reading previous posts to ask about these new binoculars. It might explain why Zeiss have not updated their web site. I was told that they haven't even launched any new binoculars yet, and no prices are available.
Click to expand...

That Rösener page does give both pictures and prices, though!
 
Leif said:
Incidentally the Zeiss 8x30 BGAT, an old design, have almost no CA. Not being an optical designer, it's hard to comment further.
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I have theory of old glass types (with arsenic and lead) being better concerning CA...new eco-glass is more environmental friendly...but...i hope i'm wrong...

Was the ones you tested new "classics" or older ones ??

In recent tests of Zeiss Dialyt 7x42 classics I could clearly see CA..of the longitudinal type, (purplish blur around high contrast details)

Anyway, I regret I sold my old 8x30 Zeiss BGAT, should have kept them just for the logo "made in West Germany" ...
 
gorank said:
I have theory of old glass types (with arsenic and lead) being better concerning CA...new eco-glass is more environmental friendly...but...i hope i'm wrong...

Was the ones you tested new "classics" or older ones ??

In recent tests of Zeiss Dialyt 7x42 classics I could clearly see CA..of the longitudinal type, (purplish blur around high contrast details)

Anyway, I regret I sold my old 8x30 Zeiss BGAT, should have kept them just for the logo "made in West Germany" ...
Click to expand...

It was a recent 8x30 BGAT Classic though I have also tried a 30 year old version (no phase-coating) and they were very similar. Unlike most Zeiss roof prism bins which use Abbe-Koenig prisms, they use Schmidt-Pechan prisms.

I tend to think that the trend for lighter more compact binoculars is forcing designers to compromise colour correction for the sake of weight and size. But I might be wrong. (I seem to think colour correction in the Leica 8x42 Trinovid was reasonable.)

I'm not sure they are still made in Germany. Certainly Leica have moved some production facilities to Portugal and I heard that some Zeiss optics are made in Hungary.
 
Leif said:
It was a recent 8x30 BGAT Classic though I have also tried a 30 year old version (no phase-coating) and they were very similar. Unlike most Zeiss roof prism bins which use Abbe-Koenig prisms, they use Schmidt-Pechan prisms.

I tend to think that the trend for lighter more compact binoculars is forcing designers to compromise colour correction for the sake of weight and size. But I might be wrong. (I seem to think colour correction in the Leica 8x42 Trinovid was reasonable.)

I'm not sure they are still made in Germany. Certainly Leica have moved some production facilities to Portugal and I heard that some Zeiss optics are made in Hungary.
Click to expand...

The Zeiss Diafun binoculars are said to be made in Hungary which might also be true for the Conquest binoculars. I doubt that Zeiss will move the assembly line for the few Classics still in production, but who knows? The Conquests I tried had no "Made in ..." markings as I recall, which may mean a silent "Made in Hungary". That was the situation with the Japanese camera companies 20 years ago when they started to make lenses outside Japan. If a lens did not have a "Made in Japan" marking on it. it was made somewhere else. Perhaps there was a discrete "Taiwan" somewhere on the box or on a lens cover.

Concerning the B/GA 8x30, they are very compact and have still passed Leif's harsh and unforgiving CA test. Quite interesting pair of binoculars as a light weight pair.
 
gunvald said:
The Zeiss Diafun binoculars are said to be made in Hungary which might also be true for the Conquest binoculars. I doubt that Zeiss will move the assembly line for the few Classics still in production, but who knows? The Conquests I tried had no "Made in ..." markings as I recall, which may mean a silent "Made in Hungary". That was the situation with the Japanese camera companies 20 years ago when they started to make lenses outside Japan. If a lens did not have a "Made in Japan" marking on it. it was made somewhere else. Perhaps there was a discrete "Taiwan" somewhere on the box or on a lens cover.

Concerning the B/GA 8x30, they are very compact and have still passed Leif's harsh and unforgiving CA test. Quite interesting pair of binoculars as a light weight pair.
Click to expand...

I spoke to Zeiss USA a couple weeks ago with respect to place of manufacture for Conquest line and the answer was "Germany".
 
My 8x20 Victory Compact bins are made in Hungary. I use them in the daylight hours, and really enjoy their lighter weight and one-handed operation. With careful, tripod-mounted testing, I fail to detect any LCA or TCA (except when viewing off-axis). Of course, with a modest FOV of 117m, that is not unexpected. As noted elsewhere, the larger FOV of 135m and above make the designer's life much harder.
 
the press release material for the new FL binoculars sure promises a lot...."colour fringes are eliminated to such an extent that they are practically imperceptible to the observer in all light conditions. Faithful colour reproduction in brilliant, sharply focused images has attained optimum levels. "
 
gorank said:
the press release material for the new FL binoculars sure promises a lot...."colour fringes are eliminated to such an extent that they are practically imperceptible to the observer in all light conditions. Faithful colour reproduction in brilliant, sharply focused images has attained optimum levels. "
Click to expand...

This all sounds very promising but, as I have said elsewhere, I've been "burned" by Zeiss before, having been among their earlier customers for their first Victories. So I'll let others judge first this time.
 
Swissboy said:
This all sounds very promising but, as I have said elsewhere, I've been "burned" by Zeiss before, having been among their earlier customers for their first Victories. So I'll let others judge first this time.
Click to expand...


A wise course. I think there's a lot to be said for not being first in the queue for a new model. My Swarovski 10x42s are just back after a five-week sojourn in Austria to have the 'dried-up' focusing fixed. I bought these soon after they came out in 1999; I believe this fault has since been rectified.

I also bought a MC1 zoom for my Nikon Fieldscope, and that was soon replaced by a Mk2 to correct the halo effect at low magnifications. Got stung there too.

Then again, I did buy a pair of Ultravids recently, risking early-model syndrome. No problems as yet.

But to return to the forthcoming Zeiss, I'm a bit sceptical too. I just wonder why the other top manufacturers aren't using flourite if it's a big step forward optically. It's not a new material.

Sean
 
All very interesting, but can someone please enlighten me as to why Zeiss are calling these new bins 'Victory' albeit with 'FL' tagged on? The name was naff from the start and now has 'baggage' in the form of the mediocre performance (at the till if not in the field!) of the current Victory range. I'm not sure that they look quite as stylish as either the Swarovskis or the new Liecas, but if they crack it optically that won't be a huge hurdle,
John
 
John Cantelo said:
All very interesting, but can someone please enlighten me as to why Zeiss are calling these new bins 'Victory' albeit with 'FL' tagged on? The name was naff from the start and now has 'baggage' in the form of the mediocre performance (at the till if not in the field!) of the current Victory range. I'm not sure that they look quite as stylish as either the Swarovskis or the new Liecas, but if they crack it optically that won't be a huge hurdle,
John
Click to expand...

John.
Interesting comment on the naming, and baggage, but maybe the powers that be, do not think the name is the problem. Mediocre performance, do you mean transmission, fov, close focus, etc etc and against what? They did receive a poor review in the UK I think that it came from Birdwatching, and this no doubt put a negative feel on things, before people had even tried them, Birdwatch were quite positive about them. BVD were fairly negative about them, but I now see that the changes made to the binocular has changed some opinion. CJW on this site seems to like them after purchasing a pair.

John / Swissboy
On design and feel, have you had a look at them, and how do they feel, are they well balanced? What about the optics?
But if the product is not available, how can we make any comments until we have tried them. Nearly everyone in past posts mentions the need to try binoculars, before buying them.

The new Victory FL models are Made in Germany.
 
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dogfish said:
But to return to the forthcoming Zeiss, I'm a bit sceptical too. I just wonder why the other top manufacturers aren't using flourite if it's a big step forward optically. It's not a new material.
Sean
Click to expand...

Dielectric coatings were around for decades before they were applied to binoculars. I think the Swarovski EL range were the first binoculars to have dielectric coatings - Swarobright - applied to prisms to increase contrast and brightness. (Or at least the first company to mention such things. Nikon might have been doing the same.) It took Leica many years to introduce binoculars with dielectric coatings i.e. the Ultravid range. Such coatings add cost, which is presumably why they were not used earlier. Manufacturers correctly predicted that the market would support even sillier prices.

Back to flourite optics. Flourite (or flourite glass) is expensive and increases manufacturing costs as it is harder to work than standard glass (it is softer). So increased costs is the obvious reason why manufacturers have not used it before. What it does is give improved correction of chromatic and spherical aberrations. Bear in mind that a binocular has objectives with an F number of ~4 according to some sources. In some top name instruments CA is so severe that to my eyes it interferes with observation, rendering a bird as a smear of purple. If the Zeiss Victory FL range do have greatly reduced CA (and maybe improved sharpness?) and are otherwise top grade, then IMO they will be a big advance. Whether or not the market as a whole agrees is another matter.

Incidentally most people claim not to see CA through top end binoculars such as the Swaro EL and Leica Ultravid. Goodness knows why!

Incidentally the current Zeiss Victory range are reckoned by most people to have excellent optics.
 
John Cantelo said:
All very interesting, but can someone please enlighten me as to why Zeiss are calling these new bins 'Victory' albeit with 'FL' tagged on? The name was naff from the start and now has 'baggage' in the form of the mediocre performance (at the till if not in the field!) of the current Victory range. I'm not sure that they look quite as stylish as either the Swarovskis or the new Liecas, but if they crack it optically that won't be a huge hurdle,
John
Click to expand...

I believe that the "AOS"- binos design came with the Victory models, maybe thats why the hold on to the victory-name...I dont know really...new binos - new name... but germans hold on to tradition...

But I cant agree when you say that the last victory bins has "mediocre" performance...the VII are not bad at all...i couldt get used to the "look and feel" though..

Nevertheless i think that Zeiss has learnt a lot from the first line of Vitory bins...you can even read it in the press release...

when it comes to the design..well...tastes differ...the swaro EL:s..are well...ehh...green....=)...the ultravids are...well..green or black...at least...but very anonymous...except from the red dot...the leica Trinovids were a good example of anti-design...=)

The new FL:s could be as classic as the Dialyts...low-voiced but distinct design...
 
I'd agree with Gorank regarding the lack of 'character' in the design of both Swaro and Leica - too smooth looking, maybe?
 
gorank said:
I believe that the "AOS"- binos design came with the Victory models, maybe thats why the hold on to the victory-name...I dont know really...new binos - new name... but germans hold on to tradition...
Click to expand...

LOL

Victory. Conquest. What next? Domination? Annexation? Anschluss? 3:)

Zeiss have always had odd names for optical products: Dialyt binoculars; Protar, Planar, Tessar, Sonnar lenses. They must spend a fortune on research and then ask someone on overly strong medication to come up with the name.

The Trinovid and Ultravid names are just as stupid though ...
 
Leif said:
LOL

Victory. Conquest. What next? Domination? Annexation? Anschluss? 3:)

Zeiss have always had odd names for optical products: Dialyt binoculars; Protar, Planar, Tessar, Sonnar lenses. They must spend a fortune on research and then ask someone on overly strong medication to come up with the name.

The Trinovid and Ultravid names are just as stupid though ...
Click to expand...

LOL..

..."Domination"...very good name...
but Victory FL is slightly better than "Domination"...=)
or Victory EU to be more PC...

the german names sure are very odd...expecially if you pronounce them in english..=)

long day in the field today...is my excuse...
 
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