These days you can get a basic binoculars app for your iphone for one thousandth of the cost of an SF ; that when combined with the evolving IS technology is the space to watch in the medium term ... Apple have the clout to crush all before it.
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New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Chosun Juan
- Start date
These days you can get a basic binoculars app for your iphone for one thousandth of the cost of an SF ; that when combined with the evolving IS technology is the space to watch in the medium term ... Apple have the clout to crush all before it.
Vespobuteo
Well-known member
don't forget cars being recalled…
everything is in constant beta-mode these days…
including my brain…
http://money.cnn.com/2014/04/09/autos/toyota-recall/
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jul/16/bmw-recall-3-series-airbag-takata
oetzi
Well-known member
Well, its quite entertaining to read here on a lazy afternoon, but...
2340 posts about a binocular which is about to be/has just been introduced.
Mostly from people, who havent laid a hand (and an eye) on it yet.
Everyone knows, that marketing is basically a bunch of lies, never to be believed.
Everyone knows, that a newly introduced product, especially a complicated one like a bino, needs some time to have the hiccups erased in production.
Still, too many people expect the manufacturer´s fairy tales to be absolutely true and every produced bino to be perfect right from the start.
Aint that a bit odd?
2340 posts about a binocular which is about to be/has just been introduced.
Mostly from people, who havent laid a hand (and an eye) on it yet.
Everyone knows, that marketing is basically a bunch of lies, never to be believed.
Everyone knows, that a newly introduced product, especially a complicated one like a bino, needs some time to have the hiccups erased in production.
Still, too many people expect the manufacturer´s fairy tales to be absolutely true and every produced bino to be perfect right from the start.
Aint that a bit odd?
For the last two posts:
Does this mean this is acceptable though? Or do we just roll over to this level of dis-organisation and quality standards. Okay it happens but does that mean we sit back and don't comment?
If you buy something do you just return it and say I'll have a replacement whenever it suits you, please Mr binocular maker? Or keep it and accept its faults and think this is just the level of service I expect these days.
I'm surprised at such a passive response. If you don't make manufacturers aware of issues then what does that say about us as consumers.
I'm sure people making these comments do have the odd complain about something or other every now and then.
Accept it and it'll continue, or maybe others will do the work for you and make manufacturers aware that they need to set higher standards of care for those who are keeping them in business.
A late night rant from me, but I find 'lazy afternoon' comments like this surprising and disappointing.
Does this mean this is acceptable though? Or do we just roll over to this level of dis-organisation and quality standards. Okay it happens but does that mean we sit back and don't comment?
If you buy something do you just return it and say I'll have a replacement whenever it suits you, please Mr binocular maker? Or keep it and accept its faults and think this is just the level of service I expect these days.
I'm surprised at such a passive response. If you don't make manufacturers aware of issues then what does that say about us as consumers.
I'm sure people making these comments do have the odd complain about something or other every now and then.
Accept it and it'll continue, or maybe others will do the work for you and make manufacturers aware that they need to set higher standards of care for those who are keeping them in business.
A late night rant from me, but I find 'lazy afternoon' comments like this surprising and disappointing.
perterra
Well-known member
If you dont like it then return it for a refund. The manufacture will quickly decide to either lower the price to the point where people dont complain or fix the problems before shipping.
The things people complain about may be a real issue, or may be an issue personal to them. In Orvis the other day looking for some nice heavy weight flannel shirts and I get to witness this exchange by a dumpy guy who was well heeled from his appearance and the store clerk. Guy was trying on Barbour waxed cotton jackets. The guy says I wear a large. Clerk says okay, you will probably need an XL in Barbour. Guy says no I wear a large. Clerk hands him a large, guy gets it on and says too tight. (it was way too damn tight) Clerk says let me get an XL, guy says, no I wear a large. Guy is protesting as the clerk hands him an XL. Guy puts it on, to me it still looked a little tight if you layer but the guy said no thanks, I wear a large and thats an XL. Clerk says well it seems to fit, guy said yes but I wear a large and looked rather upset.
So if the guy complains about Barbour, is it legit?
perterra
Well-known member
Thanks. Wow. Oltravid HD +. Sounds good. Probably a lot of moola.
Nice. Thanks.
That's sounds like a good strategy. Wait till the pre-production models are sold. I can see the price on the SF dropping to about $2300 or so also after about 6 months.
Sagittarius
Well-known member
Possibly but unlikely, Dennis.
I just have a gut feeling there's a Troll among us.
I usually never call anyone out but feel someone has an agenda.
My instinct tells me something's not quite right here.
I thought I was the ONLY troll around here. I don't want any other troll invading my territory. He can find someplace else to troll. You like your HT?A lot of online sellers of the SF will give you 10% of the retail price if you ask. That is not a lot but it is something.
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The Leica had NO astigmatism?
Well I didn't mean 0.000000, just none that I could see with a 7x boost. Not that it was to a whole lot of use, since my eyes have some. As a result, it's double star splitting for me was best slightly off axis where my eyes' astigmatism was best compensated.
Ron
Well I didn't mean 0.000000, just none that I could see with a 7x boost. Not that it was to a whole lot of use, since my eyes have some. As a result, it's double star splitting for me was best slightly off axis where my eyes' astigmatism was best compensated.
Ron
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
Remain seated folks! ... (that means you too Hermann!
Hi Lee,
We are agreed. That was all I was really getting at. :cat:
When we are looking at a high dollar bin like this one, with such company stated grandiose (and I would venture - over the top, and self-defeating) claims, then public forums such as this become valuable resources for consumers to keep the b*st*rds honest (as the Honourable Democrats Party Leader - Don Chipp used to say ..... :brains:
There have been odd reports of CA, and lack of sharpness (astigmatism), and flat colours. These may include user aberrations and perceptions, or just sample variation ....... proper quantitative testing will sort the wheat from the chaff, and I look forward to Kimmo's report, and wish that HenryLink and Typo could get their hands on production units sooner rather than later.
If there is sample variation at play, then this is unacceptable at this price point - in no way should the customer be the final quality inspector, with the company getting away with whatever it can with unsuspecting, uninformed, or uncritical users --- that's where the beauty of the internet comes in --- it puts a critical floor under the quality and performance standards that we are all reassured to walk on.
Of more serious concern is the blue ring in the periphery, and varying levels of fuzziness as reported by Torview, and the blurred ring part way across the field as reported by Tim, and various focus issues. I know not all samples exhibit this, and not all users report this - but how would a customer feel on the other side of the world to open a box and pull that type of unit out. It remains to be seen whether these are design, parameter threshhold, or manufacturing problems.
You are right in saying that Zeiss has made a hash of the introduction again.
Lets hope they finalize spec soon at a high enough quality level such that no-one gets a blue-edged fuzzy-ringed unsharp 'dumb' focus unit ...... ie that the performance of the bin comfortably exceeds the best of the best eyes out there :eek!:
Then, they just need to be made perfectly at that spec and in sufficient numbers to supply the market.
It might pay us (the binoholic B public) to keep track of serial numbers when the good ones finally hit the shelves to avoid any pre-production reworked bitzers ......... :smoke:
Chosun :gh:
Hi Chosun
As one purveyor of 'cutesy humour' to another purveyor of the same, allow me a couple of comments. 3
I have repeatedly said I haven't tried any production SFs yet and that still remains the case, so I have no relevant experience to bring to the table, and even if I had tried a unit or two, that wouldn't entitle me to extrapolate that to every SF that has entered the market.
.....
But when Dennis calmed down and posted that he was simply advocating caution in the face of conflicting reports, I also posted that I agreed with this.
Some reports are glowing and some aren't. Some reports are definitely of concern and others definitely aren't.
As for the delays in the SF coming to market: what a screw-up! In seven months since the SF was launched the earth has travelled around 340 million miles, the earth’s population has grown by about 36 million, several models of mobile phone have become obsolete and Leica has introduced a new binocular that was freely available in the shops straight away. And SF is hardly flooding onto the market yet. I am afraid its the HT story all over again, and whether it is for different reasons or not, to the market the result is the same.
Lee
Hi Lee,
We are agreed. That was all I was really getting at. :cat:
When we are looking at a high dollar bin like this one, with such company stated grandiose (and I would venture - over the top, and self-defeating) claims, then public forums such as this become valuable resources for consumers to keep the b*st*rds honest (as the Honourable Democrats Party Leader - Don Chipp used to say
..... :brains:There have been odd reports of CA, and lack of sharpness (astigmatism), and flat colours. These may include user aberrations and perceptions, or just sample variation ....... proper quantitative testing will sort the wheat from the chaff, and I look forward to Kimmo's report, and wish that HenryLink and Typo could get their hands on production units sooner rather than later.
If there is sample variation at play, then this is unacceptable at this price point - in no way should the customer be the final quality inspector, with the company getting away with whatever it can with unsuspecting, uninformed, or uncritical users --- that's where the beauty of the internet comes in --- it puts a critical floor under the quality and performance standards that we are all reassured to walk on.
Of more serious concern is the blue ring in the periphery, and varying levels of fuzziness as reported by Torview, and the blurred ring part way across the field as reported by Tim, and various focus issues. I know not all samples exhibit this, and not all users report this - but how would a customer feel on the other side of the world to open a box and pull that type of unit out. It remains to be seen whether these are design, parameter threshhold, or manufacturing problems.
You are right in saying that Zeiss has made a hash of the introduction again.
Lets hope they finalize spec soon at a high enough quality level such that no-one gets a blue-edged fuzzy-ringed unsharp 'dumb' focus unit ...... ie that the performance of the bin comfortably exceeds the best of the best eyes out there :eek!:
Then, they just need to be made perfectly at that spec and in sufficient numbers to supply the market.
It might pay us (the binoholic B
public) to keep track of serial numbers when the good ones finally hit the shelves to avoid any pre-production reworked bitzers ......... :smoke:Chosun :gh:
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
Alexis, ..... Bravo ! :clap: ..... Superbly said ! . :brains: . :t:
We, the buying public don't have to swallow hook, line, and sinker, every piece of marketing bunkum trotted out. If the company's want to live by the sword - well then they can die by the pen!
If it is fair enough for a company to sing the praises of its latest and greatest products, then it is fair enough for the buying public (as opposed to the advertorial nudge nudge, wink wink, backslappers) to call them out when they fall short. Sure, nothing short of a proper statistical analysis is ever really going to reveal the size of the problem --- but if you are the chump who opens that box half way around the world to find a sub-par individual unit, then your statistical analysis is instantaneously completed = 100% fail! . :storm:
Not everyone has the luxury of nipping down to their local dealer to scrutinise first hand the best individual unit in stock, making sure it is satisfactory for them prior to purchase. Hence information such as been uncovered here is a valuable public resource, and wilfully misleading trolls discounted (if they occur), there is nothing to get hysterical about (fanboi and journeyman alike).
Like you - I think the more the better.
Chosun :gh:
Rotherbirder
Well-known member
At last, a modicum of level-headedness returns to the forum! :clap: The only way that the optics giants will be made to sit up and listen and take note is to critique their products honestly and objectively without laying on the fanboy schmaltz. As I said earlier in the thread, I think that Zeiss shot themselves in the foot a little by releasing all the promo and over-hyping the SF before production was on-stream - not ideal given the expertise of some of the posters on forums such as this! As for the 'Zeiss blue ring' (as opposed to the 'Absam ring'), I seem to recall my Zeiss Dialyt 10x40 BGATs exhibiting a similar phenomenon back in the 1980's - I didn't keep them long before I changed to a Swarovski 8x30 SLC!
Sagittarius
Well-known member
No, we don't need another Troll; the resident one doesn't need any competition, lol. |=)|
Yes, still like my HT but I don't believe they're leaps and bounds better than any of the other Alphas.
I'm a hunter mostly and the HT fits my needs best but I also like to watch birds, plus view sports, and they're plenty good for those activities also.
I doubt any of the big 3, along with some of the other top players, could be distinguished from one to the next by an average everyday user for casual viewing.
Only fanboys know the difference. :t: (yes, I'm a fanboy too) |8)|
Have you ever spent several hours in a day comparing some of the top brands, Dennis ?
I have and it's extremely taxing to your eyes and body.
Or, at least, to me it was.
Last time I did it, I compared Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss. (all in 10x42)
I went back and fourth for several hours before I decided the winner (for my eyes) that day was the Leica Ultravid.
They were best but just barely.
Could be their coatings and construction gave them the victory, like you mentioned above.
Yes, I have spent quite a bit of time comparing binoculars. I find it interesting though. I keep what I feel is the winner after comparing them and then if a new binocular comes a long that is supposed to be better I will buy it and then compare it to what I have. The loser usually goes on Ebay(after I pump and dump to get the best price) and the winner stays. It is as simple as that. I have had times where I had several binoculars like you and I compared them all. I really don't have a need for several alpha binoculars but I like to have what I determine is best for me and how I use them. The SV 8x32 just works the best overall. I also have the Swarovski 8x30 CL, Canon 10x30 IS, and the Leupold Yosemite 6x30 right now.
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Vespobuteo
Well-known member
Did a comparison between SF 8x42, SV 8,5x42, FL 7x42 and SV 8x32 today.
The overall winner to me is clearly the SF:s.
Most impressive is the huge FOV/AFOV in combination with 8x mag.
It completely draws you into the view.
When upgrading my 7x42 FL:s, there's no doubt that I will go for the SF:s.
The overall winner to me is clearly the SF:s.
Most impressive is the huge FOV/AFOV in combination with 8x mag.
It completely draws you into the view.
When upgrading my 7x42 FL:s, there's no doubt that I will go for the SF:s.
