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¿Old fluorite scope or some new ED example?. (1 Viewer)

J

JulianSanchez

Active member
Hi all!! ;)

I am a spanish birdwatcher looking for my first "good quality" scope.

I am thinking of an all-porpouse scope, able to focus long-distance birds in lake shores and to spend some time in look-outs at national reserves, expecting also to take it with me in parks and "less ambitious" walks.

I would say it´s important to me to get a scope with a good-very good high mag performance, reaching those birds "not reachable" with mi bins.

The weight doesn´t seem a trouble to me.

The issue is..... that my budget is not high; around 800 pound/1000 euros for scope+eyepiece.

I have already bought a second hand 055 Manfrotto tripod and a 502 HD head (very heavy set, I know :smoke:).

I am not planning to practice digiscoping, and I don´t regret second-hand.

I was think in a 80mms fluorite second hand old scope, as Kowa 823/4, TSN3/4, Swa AT80HD, Leica APO televid 77......with an 20-60 zoom ep, but.......
Would you consider a new ED scope?; scopes like Kowa 663, Opticron ED, Pentax, Kite......I think they usually have wider angle zoom eyepieces than the old fluorite examples commented, and could be affordable to my budget.
I am afraid to buy an old fluorite Kowa, for example, and to suffer a very narrow zoom view at high mags or a blurred image, compared to what I could get with a smooth recent zoom ep fitted on a new ED scope.

I am opened to all alternatives and opinions, keeping in mind that the scope should match with my tripod and head.

Thanks to all from the south of Europe!! :t::t::t:
 
Hi,

TSN-3/4 with Opticron SDL v2 is a nice combination (I have it and have not yet felt the urge to upgrade) - the HDF Zoom fits too as does the current Kowa zoom for the 60x/66x/82SV lines.

Kowa 823/4 is a nice scope but does use very proprietary eyepieces - not compatible to any other Kowa scopes. I think sb from spain adapted a Baader zoom though... should be on the forum somewhere.

Cannot comment on Swaro AT80HD and Leica APO although both are great scopes. Not sure if they're really fluorite though.

Joachim
 
Thanks Joachim!.

What about the Kowa adapter to use the 60/66/82sv eyepieces on the 823?
It is not specially expensive.
Could I install for example the TZ-9 20x-60x on the 823? Would it work OK, specially regarding the field of view?

Thanks a lot mate.
I like the TSN3+opticron EP you comment.....seems to be a good option!
 
Hi Julian. If you can get hold of the EC1 adaptor you can use all Kowa TSN 1-4/663 eyepieces brilliantly on an 823/24. There's no loss of quality - in fact I think the 663 eyepieces work even better on the bigger scope. Because the 823/824 has a longer focal length the magnification changes so a 30x becomes a 32x, a 20-60 zoom becomes 21-66 etc. in my opinion though the 30x/32x is the best viewing experience that you would use the majority of the time. (The zoom for the 820 series is much better than the old zoom for the TSN 1-4)
 
Thanks a lot Grando.

The issue would mean to invest in a 823 body + adapter + new zoom ep (TZ-9).

The TSN3/4 + opticron ep´s is not cheap neither.

I will have to study these options, not refusing to take a look at new models, or other old scopes such as Nikon ED78/82.

Thanks mate!
 
Plenty of 820 series eyepieces seem to come on EBay as well, so You wouldn't need to necessarily invest in an adaptor for 660 series lenses, were you to go down the 820 route.
 
Grando said:
Plenty of 820 series eyepieces seem to come on EBay as well, so You wouldn't need to necessarily invest in an adaptor for 660 series lenses, were you to go down the 820 route.
Click to expand...

I will take a look dear friend.
If I can save the money for the adaptor to get a good zoom the project seems even more interesting.
At Ace optics and other second hand shops it could turn out as well ;)

Thank you!
 
Hi,

yes, forgot about the adapter for current small form factor EPs to 823/4 as this was not listed for some time on the Kowa page but now it is. Makes those even more interesting.

If the TSN-3/4 is an option depends on the price - I got mine for 400€ including a super stable Cullman Titan photo tripod and the old zoom (which got retired immediately). If you can snag up a body in ok state for 300 or 400 I'd say go for it.
There is also an older and newer variant - the later is multicoated and says so on the body - it's also waterproof but a bit more iffy with eyepieces - less clearance in the body due to a sealing flat glass.

Joachim
 
Last edited:
Hola Julian...bienvenido a Birdforum...Your question is a classic in the optics debate,..I read a similar question a few days ago in another forum,a spanish one,and now i realiza that it was probably you¡
Brands like Zen ray and vortex were mentioned in the other question...I think with an older classic,like the swaro AT 80 HD,the Kowa 823 or tsn3,or nikon ed82,you probably would have to worry less about getting a scope that has less than perfect image quality due to aberrations like astigmatism or misalignment.Mid of the road scopes like the Zen,or even in the Vortex in the next step up in price,or pentax ED(another nice model),Are ,and this have been documented here with many personal experiences from different members,less reliable in the way they implement quality control,so you might end with a lesser unit ,if you are not ready to takethe time and effort needed to test a number of units until you find that cherry one..
 
The more recent TSN3/4 with the glass below the eyepiece isn't strictly speaking waterproof, though the glass is meant to prevent dust and some water getting in via the eyepiece. You'd still want a stay-on case with those models and be careful in heavy rain. The 820 series is a step up as it is also nitrogen-filled and Kowa says they are waterproof (though don't go using them while snorkelling!), like all the current Kowa models.
 
Great help and info brothers,
thank you all, specially to spanish neighbours B :).

I am almost convinced to follow the "vintage" high-end scopes in spite of the new ED models.
Let´s see if I can catch something interesting.

In my country there seems to be a very "sparse" second hand market.
In the scant webs available, very few interesting pieces come up very seldom, and for very high prices, involving old scopes also.
It is not unsual to see used scopes announced asking the same (or near) price than new.

I have received recomendations asuring that trying the scope is a must. That would ruin my plans of buying it from ebay.
Do you find it absolutely necesary or at least very important to test before buying?

Cheers ;)
 
I have seen plenty of ED78 for sale on the ebay.....
How does that scope perform?
I have read that there is plenty of Nikon ep´s for this scope?
Would you rate it in the 823/old alphas league? price recomended?

Sorry for so many questions.
You all are of great help to me B :)
 
JulianSanchez said:
Of course Joachim.
If I were living in the UK that good one would already be mine!
Click to expand...

Oh, was that UK only - was reading a bit fast maybe?

Regarding Fieldscope 78ED - it's a great scope but it is plagued a bit by the zoom EPs offered. Both available offers, the older 20-45x (which gives 25-56x on the 78mm body) and the current 25-75x suffer from a small field and limited eye relief, especially at the lower magnification end. Apart from that the 25-75 is well regarded.
Not sure if non-brand EPs can be easily adapted or there's a possibility for astro EPs.

See http://betterviewdesired.com/A-New-Crop-of-Big-Scopes.php#Nikon Fieldscope ED78 for a review from back then...

And here's a review of the later 82ED and the current 25-75x zoom from birdforum member Kimmo Absetz where he compares it to the 78ED

http://www.lintuvaruste.fi/hinnasto/optiikkaarvostelu/optics_9_Nikon82ED_GB.shtml

Regards,

Joachim
 
Thanks Joachim,
that is just what I´ve reading about the ED78/82; seems to be a good sharp and clear scope, but its eyepieces suffer from a bit narrow FOV.....in the second market they are not specially cheap in fact.

I´ll keep on searching a good chance.
I´ve been offered a mint ATM80 HD with 20-60X for 1700 euro, with a SWA stay on case and guarantee still for 5 years. Great recent scope but too expensive for a newbie as me. Besides the economic part, the "warm" of an old scope catches my attention....what is more, if I decided to spend so much money I think I´d make an effort to go for the 883.....

Thanks mate!!
 
Julian

I have a Leica Televid APO 77 which I bought second hand for about the same money as you have to spend. It has the 32 wide angle EP and a lovely stay on case by Skua.

I can honestly say that it is one of the best purchases I have ever made. These scopes are built like tanks and will stand up to ANY other scope optically.

I have had about 3 years viewing pleasure from mine now. If you can find a good one it really would be worth having.

Sandy
 
Sandy Leng said:
Julian

I have a Leica Televid APO 77 which I bought second hand for about the same money as you have to spend. It has the 32 wide angle EP and a lovely stay on case by Skua.

I can honestly say that it is one of the best purchases I have ever made. These scopes are built like tanks and will stand up to ANY other scope optically.

I have had about 3 years viewing pleasure from mine now. If you can find a good one it really would be worth having.

Sandy
Click to expand...

Thanks Sandy.
To get the APO 77mms version would be very nice.
All the comments about the model are good to very good; sharp and with the excellent colours of the brand.
I have seen several for sale but still couldn't reach them.
Perhaps I am wrong, but I think they usually go near the upper limit of my budget.

I am curious why you chose a fixed EP. Did you try the 20-60x zoom? Is its FOV narrow?

Thanks a lot for your help.
Julian
 
JulianSanchez said:
Thanks Sandy.
To get the APO 77mms version would be very nice.
All the comments about the model are good to very good; sharp and with the excellent colours of the brand.
I have seen several for sale but still couldn't reach them.
Perhaps I am wrong, but I think they usually go near the upper limit of my budget.

I am curious why you chose a fixed EP. Did you try the 20-60x zoom? Is its FOV narrow?

Thanks a lot for your help.
Julian
Click to expand...

I am of the opinion that a fixed EP will always be better than a zoom.
I have looked through other birders scopes with a zoom EP and found that they are only good at the lower end of magnification.

The 32 wide angle I have, has all the reach I need and still gives a decent FOV.
I bought my scope from Birdnet here in the UK, and looking on the website I see they have another second hand Leica Televid APO77 for sale at £799.
I believe they post worldwide, but I guess the postage would be quite high

Sandy
 
Last edited:
Sandy Leng said:
I am of the opinion that a fixed EP will always be better than a zoom.
I have looked through other birders scopes with a zoom EP and found that they are only good at the lower end of magnification.

The 32 wide angle I have, has all the reach I need and still gives a decent FOV.
I bought my scope from Birdnet here in the UK, and looking on the website I see they have another second hand Leica Televid APO77 for sale at £799.
I believe they post worldwide, but I guess the postage would be quite high

Sandy
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot Sandy,
I will take a look at that web also. ;)
 
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