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top of the line 8x25s now (1 Viewer)

edwincjones

Well-known member
The SW 8x25 CL seems to be the king of the hill,
but new Zeiss Victory 8x25s and Kowa Genesis 8x22s coming or here.

Do we have the pros and cons yet of each.

thanks,
edj
 
The Swarovski are on the large side for this class, closer to the Leica 8x32. The Zeus 8x25 are not shipping yet, hence the dearth of reviews, but they look promising, what with the FL lenses and all.
 
I took my pentax papillio 8x21 to the local Cabela's to compare with better optics.
They had a leica trinovid 10x20 and a SW 10x25 CL.
Comparsions were inside looking across the building to a mounted deer.

Surprisingly, I could tell little difference optically between my $140 pair, the $500 leica, and the $900 SW.
The trinovid was small, very small, and a little difficult for me to manage.
The SW's larger size was more ergonomic.
Both were better built and more attractive.

My compact quest is over and I will keep what I have-at least for now.

edj
 
I took my pentax papillio 8x21 to the local Cabela's to compare with better optics.
They had a leica trinovid 10x20 and a SW 10x25 CL.
Comparsions were inside looking across the building to a mounted deer.

Surprisingly, I could tell little difference optically between my $140 pair, the $500 leica, and the $900 SW.
The trinovid was small, very small, and a little difficult for me to manage.
The SW's larger size was more ergonomic.
Both were better built and more attractive.

My compact quest is over and I will keep what I have-at least for now.

edj
When comparing those three binoculars you really have to look farther than across the building. The Papillio's weakness because of it's close focus capabilities is longer distances. That is the big reason I got rid of mine. At longer distances the Papillio doesn't compare to either the Leica Trinovid 10x20 or the SW 10x25 CL-P. The Papillio is good for insect observation or close range birding.
 
okay-that makes sense

I have the papillio, I have a good 8x32;
so my issue is what do the pocket compacts add to my viewing
that I do not already have

my answer is they are small, portable, more likely to have with me for .....whatever

I suspect the trinovid and CL-P are not very good for insects
as all binoculars are compromises

edj
 
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okay-that makes sense

I have the papillio, I have a good 8x32;
so my issue is what do the pocket compacts add to my viewing
that I do not already have

my answer is they are small, portable, more likely to have with me for .....whatever

I suspect the trinovid and CL-P are not very good for insects
as all binoculars are compromises

edj

Ed:

Nobody buys a high quality binocular with viewing insects as an
important attribute. There are many other more important factors.

This will include 99% of the buying public.

Jerry
 
okay-that makes sense
I have the papillio, I have a good 8x32;
so my issue is what do the pocket compacts add to my viewing
that I do not already have

my answer is they are small, portable, more likely to have with me for .....whatever

I suspect the trinovid and CL-P are not very good for insects
as all binoculars are compromises

There's a big gap in size between 8x20 and 8x32. The Leica Ultravid) 8x20 I can carry in my jacket breast pocket (I usually make do with a Monovid), and thus they are "every day carry" binoculars.

For insects, I'd advise you to have a look at the Minox Macroscope. Because of its porro design, it's quite large for a monocular, but its 35cm close focus distance is even better than the Papiliorama II, and you should think of it more as a standoff 5x loupe.
 
Comparsions were inside looking across the building to a mounted deer.

Surprisingly, I could tell little difference optically ...

edj

Under those well lit conditions most glass looks great, yet none are to be found glassing there save those seeking to compare under undesirable conditions due to unrealistic parameters.

Once upon a time I thought it handy to acquire a small fieldscope of modest build and cheaper price. Off to Wally-World examining a Simmons 45* 15-45? or thereabouts. I was reading bar codes, ingredients and whatever. I knew better though the idea of little spent and potential bargain was strong.

Naturally, upon returning unto shack-toe de la woods I was not pleasantly surprised. Dark and gloomy view and suffering blackouts.
What happened to the clean view w/spacious eye placement?

Left it back at the store.

So, unless you plan on spending your leisure time byrd watching at the mall you might consider a wee bit more thought on the matter.

I bought a discontinued Sightron SIII 8x24mm FMC compact roof FOV 328' none to shabby for retail around two bills. If I took it to a store it would hold its own against better glass at 100'.

In real conditions it will smoke my Papillio 6.5x21 at distance past 8.5'. However, I spent roughly the same for the twain because the Sightron was discounted 50+%. There's no contest in the build or quality of glass.

I do not suggest you drop a grand on compact bins. The small sizes are niche bins. Maybe they're more costly to manufacture as well. I do not know, but your Papillio 8x21 will suffice for the time being until you find the right bin/price point.

As always, YMMV ...
 
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Ed:

Nobody buys a high quality binocular with viewing insects as an
important attribute. There are many other more important factors.

This will include 99% of the buying public.

Jerry


there is that Leica Monovid for the 1%
but
I do want to thank the BirdForum members for their respectful , and informative replies to my posts

edj
 
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When comparing those three binoculars you really have to look farther than across the building. The Papillio's weakness because of it's close focus capabilities is longer distances. That is the big reason I got rid of mine. At longer distances the Papillio doesn't compare to either the Leica Trinovid 10x20 or the SW 10x25 CL-P. The Papillio is good for insect observation or close range birding.

I don't understand, and I don't agree. I don't find any issues with the Papilio achieving sharp focus at "infinity", and it resolves very well. If it (in my case, the 6.5x version) has any optical limitations as a birding binocular compared to other compacts, they are its modest magnification (6.5x versus 8x or 10x) and that it is a bit on the dim side. The latter problem has been partially rectified in the Papilio II, which has much better multicoatings.

...Nobody buys a high quality binocular with viewing insects as an
important attribute. There are many other more important factors.

This will include 99% of the buying public...
I've bought many premium bins w/consideration to look at insects, and although I'm certainly not alone in doing that, I will admit we may not constitute even 1% of the market.

--AP
 
It is not a matter of the Papillio not achieving focus at "infinity" and I agree it resolves well. My point is when I compared the Papillio 8.5x21 and the Swarovski 8x25 CL-P when I had them both the Swarovski was sharper and had considerably better optics. I sold the Papillio. The Papillio is a fine specialized $150.00 binocular but it ain't no alpha compact and shouldn't be compared to one.
 
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.................. The Papillio is a fine specialized $150.00 binocular but it ain't no alpha compact and shouldn't be compared to one.


??? --- With quality of construction and optics the papillio cannot compare,
but from value/use in the field, the question is "is the alpha worth 5-6X as much"
here the papillio can compare
 
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It is not a matter of the Papillio not achieving focus at "infinity" and I agree it resolves well. My point is when I compared the Papillio 8.5x21 and the Swarovski 8x25 CL-P when I had them both the Swarovski was sharper and had considerably better optics. I sold the Papillio. The Papillio is a fine specialized $150.00 binocular but it ain't no alpha compact and shouldn't be compared to one.

Excuse my confusion. Your earlier comments lead me to think that you believe that the Papilio is compromised for distance use by its close focus ability. I don't think that it is, and perhaps you don't as well. Compared to other reverse-porro compacts in the same price range, it is more bulky, and it has a smaller objective, but otherwise I think it is of similar optical quality and utility for birding. I agree that premium quality pocket bins can be better than that, mainly due to superior contrast and flare control, which is why I use them for birding in preference to good compacts like the Papilio 6.5x21 or the B&L/Bushnell 7x26 Custom.

--AP
 
Excuse my confusion. Your earlier comments lead me to think that you believe that the Papilio is compromised for distance use by its close focus ability. I don't think that it is, and perhaps you don't as well. Compared to other reverse-porro compacts in the same price range, it is more bulky, and it has a smaller objective, but otherwise I think it is of similar optical quality and utility for birding. I agree that premium quality pocket bins can be better than that, mainly due to superior contrast and flare control, which is why I use them for birding in preference to good compacts like the Papilio 6.5x21 or the B&L/Bushnell 7x26 Custom.

--AP
My point is the Papillio is not as good optically as the alpha compacts IMO especially for distant viewing. I will argue with you all day on that point. I have compared them to the Papillio. You can talk about value or cost or whatever you want but all those things aside the Papillio is not as good optically as the alpha compacts. IMO there is a big difference in sharpness, contrast, brightness and flare control. In fact if price and value are important to you and you want the binocular just for birding and you don't care about the extreme close focus or extreme compactness of the Papillio the Leupold Mojave 8x32 kills the Papillio for all around birding and can be had for only $50.00 more. My point is unless you are into looking at insects there are better birding binoculars out there for around the $200 price point.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/LEUPOLD-BX-MOJAVE-BINOCULARS/1664888.uts
 

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...My point is the Papillio is not as good optically as the alpha compacts IMO especially for distant viewing. I will argue with you all day on that point...
I've not argued about this, so I don't know why you would.

...You can talk about value or cost or whatever you want...
I _could_ but I haven't and don't plan to.

All I was arguing against were the words "because of it's [sic] close focusing capabilities" in your statement
...The Papillio's weakness because of it's close focus capabilities is longer distances...

--AP
 
but it ain't no alpha compact and shouldn't be compared to one.

Except as opie stated inside of a large well lit store looking across at a deer mount the differences in optical quality diminished.

You are the one that claimed the weakness of the Papillio is long distance due to its close focus capability.

You were called out by Alexis on what you said and you attempt to deflect your statements into 'what I meant or my point really was ...

Stating a one hundred & forty-nine dollar bin 'ain't no alpha compact' is not helping your floundering argument.
 
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follow up

I back ordered the Zeiss 8x25 ED Terra from Eagle Optics).
It will compliment/compete with my papillio 8.5x21.

thanks for the input from all,
edj
 
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