• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

To APO or not to APO, that is the question (1 Viewer)

R

romancitizen

Well-known member
I am fairly new to 'serious' birding, but know enough to realise that I would be better off with a 'scope. As it is annual bonus time, I can go up to £1,000 approx. The Leica Televid 62 appeals (weight is a bit of an issue for me, otherwise I might go for the 77).
My question is, what advantage does one get by buying the APO rather than the standard version ? the price difference is substantial, so I would want convincing that the extra is worthwhile spending: having said that, this is a once-in-a-lifetime purchase, and (I hope) will do me for 25 years, so I want to get it right.
Also, assuming that weight was not an issue, should I go for the 77 over the 62 ? I will be doing a lot of watching at Chew Valley Lake (drive past it every day), if that makes any difference.
 
Hi Roman and welcome to the site.

I can't comment on the differences between the APO and non APO 62's BUT the APO is excellent and is the one I plumped for BUT look at the Nikon Fieldscope IIIED, Zeiss65 and Swaro65HD to see which one suits you best. All of these scopes have their own plus points.

The Zeiss zoom has the widest field of view (fov) zoom (15-45 mag)
The Leica has a good zoom (16-48 but fov smaller than the Zeiss) and good fixed strength eye pieces.
The Nikon has a very well regarded 30x wide angle eyepiece it allso has a 20-60x zoom (although the fov is poor)
The Swaro has a good 30x wide angle eyepiece and a better (well the fov is) 20-60 zoom than the Nikon but it is pricey and the fov doesn't compare to the Leica let alone the Zeiss

As you'll see its horses for courses. FOV isn't everything in a zoom you need to check out what you think of the optical quality.

If you checkout the Optics reviews of small scopes on Www.alula.fi you'll see some comment on the differences between 80mm and 60-65mm scopes.

For me the weight issue was siginifcant. The 77 is quite heavy.

But for you must try them out.
 
Last edited:
pduxon said:
Hi Roman and welcome to the site.

I can't comment on the differences between the APO and non APO 62's BUT the APO is excellent and is the one I plumped for BUT look at the Nikon Fieldscope IIIED, Zeiss65 and Swaro65HD to see which one suits you best. All of these scopes have their own plus points.

The Zeiss zoom has the widest field of view (fov) zoom (15-45 mag)
The Leica has a good zoom (16-48 but fov smaller than the Zeiss) and good fixed strength eye pieces.
The Nikon has a very well regarded 30x wide angle eyepiece it allso has a 20-60x zoom (although the fov is poor)
The Swaro has a good 30x wide angle eyepiece and a better (well the fov is) 20-60 zoom than the Nikon but it is pricey and the fov doesn't compare to the Leica let alone the Zeiss

As you'll see its horses for courses. FOV isn't everything in a zoom you need to check out what you think of the optical quality.

If you checkout the Optics reviews of small scopes on Www.alula.fi you'll see some comment on the differences between 80mm and 60-65mm scopes.

For me the weight issue was siginifcant. The 77 is quite heavy.

But for you must try them out.
Click to expand...
The Swaro 80HD and Zeiss 85 are relatively light as larger scopes go and would both give brighter, sharper images - the Zeiss has a lovely wide field of view, too. We used to own a Swaro 65HD - that was a lovely scope, too. Keep ion mind that many birders choose a 30xW eyepiece and that, on any of the scopes Pete mentions, would see you through many years of happy birding.

Have you thought about the bargain offer that's still running at www.warehouseexpress.com ? Look at their offer on the Nikon ED78. Many folk have bought one here and sing its praises very highly indeed. It's half the cost, being discontinued, of other similar scopes and it has a top reputation with its large ED glass objective lens. The Nikon zoom's fov is only narrower at the lowest magnifications, really - beyond that it's not bad at all.
 
Last edited:
Hello and welcome from the Moderators and Staff of Birdforum.

As far as your question is concerned,I once had the Leica 62's Apo and non-Apo side-by-side on tripods and tested them for a good period,in fairly dull,cloudy conditions.
I honestly could not see any difference.

The fact that I then bought the Apo was mainly on the basis of...would I always wonder if ...

Not very scientific I'm afraid!
 
Have you thought about the bargain offer that's still running at www.warehouseexpress.com ? Look at their offer on the Nikon ED78. Many folk have bought one here and sing its praises very highly indeed. It's half the cost, being discontinued, of other similar scopes and it has a top reputation with its large ED glass objective lens. The Nikon zoom's fov is only narrower at the lowest magnifications, really - beyond that it's not bad at all.
Click to expand...
I had spotted that one on their site, but read somewhere that it is not waterproof, is that correct ? it rains a lot in Somerset ! also, I have not been able to find out the weight: after 25 years in the Front Row my shoulders are shot, so weight is an issue.

That being said, you can't complain at saving 800 smackers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
not waterproof but i've never heard of a problem

as well as the ED 78 you could get a 60 mm ED Nikon III with your savings or a Kowa 613 fluorite - both mega lite and portable. Get the best of both worlds. Might be able to get a sec hand Leica but I don't know and it might be a bit heavy. It's okay getting a big scope but if you do end up doing a lot of birding and travel, even if it's only in Western Pal you might find it becomes a bit of a pain in the heat of Turkey or Morocco or Israel and as for somewhere tropical don't even think of the problems of travelling/using a big scope!

the ED78 while optically outstanding hardly gets a run out as the Kowa is so nice and lite - on a shoulder pod you don't know you're even carrying it.
 
Tim Allwood said:
not waterproof but i've never heard of a problem

as well as the ED 78 you could get a 60 mm ED Nikon III with your savings or a Kowa 613 fluorite - both mega lite and portable.
Click to expand...

Timbo the little Leica weighs the same as the Nikon EDIII, can't be bothered buying two scopes. I'm not convinced the advantages of a big lens is worth the weight,

Actually though you've got me thinking. On warehousexpress Kowa 613 coupled with 30x or 20-60 lens case and tripod. £499
 
pduxon said:
it isn't waterproof.

You didn't play for Bath did you?!?!?
Click to expand...



No !!!! and for what they charge for seats now I don't go and watch them either. I remember when it was 20peee, I gave up when it went past 20 quid.
 
It's okay getting a big scope but if you do end up doing a lot of birding and travel, even if it's only in Western Pal you might find it becomes a bit of a pain in the heat of Turkey or Morocco or Israel and as for somewhere tropical don't even think of the problems of travelling/using a big scope!
Click to expand...

Tim, thanks for this: I will be travelling a lot in hotter countries (my wife is Hungarian, just come back from there, blinking flip hot): have found the Nikon weight on a site somewhere, it''s at least 50% heavier than the smaller Leica.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
romancitizen said:
Tim, thanks for this: I will be travelling a lot in hotter countries (my wife is Hungarian, just come back from there, blinking flip hot): have found the Nikon weight on a site somewhere, it''s at least 50% heavier than the smaller Leica.
Click to expand...

The four small scopes mentioned above are all about the same weight. The Kowa 613 is even lighter.
 
A couple of things that I have not yet seen mentioned on this thread:

Digiscoping: If you should happen to go in that direction later, you would thank yourself that you brought the APO/ED/HD version of whatever scope you buy. For just looking our eyes are surprisingly adapable, and not everyone sees the difference.

Steve on Better View Desired used to claim that there was about 15 minutes a day (maybe times two, morning and evening) where the bigger objective lens on an 80mm scope gave a visible difference over a 60mm. This is again for looking through; there is an advantage of the big lens for digiscoping, but that might not be of interest for you.

Niels

PS This thread probably belongs in another subsection, not the welcome one?
 
romancitizen said:
[Have you thought about the bargain offer that's still running at www.warehouseexpress.com ? Look at their offer on the Nikon ED78. Many folk have bought one here and sing its praises very highly indeed. It's half the cost, being discontinued, of other similar scopes and it has a top reputation with its large ED glass objective lens. The Nikon zoom's fov is only narrower at the lowest magnifications, really - beyond that it's not bad at all.
Click to expand...
I had spotted that one on their site, but read somewhere that it is not waterproof, is that correct ? it rains a lot in Somerset ! also, I have not been able to find out the weight: after 25 years in the Front Row my shoulders are shot, so weight is an issue.

That being said, you can't complain at saving 800 smackers.[/QUOTE]
It's not immersible according to Nikon but it's rainproof. It's a very popular scope and many people have commented that it seems for all purposes waterproof.
 
Grousemore said:
Hello and welcome from the Moderators and Staff of Birdforum.

As far as your question is concerned,I once had the Leica 62's Apo and non-Apo side-by-side on tripods and tested them for a good period,in fairly dull,cloudy conditions.
I honestly could not see any difference.

The fact that I then bought the Apo was mainly on the basis of...would I always wonder if ...

Not very scientific I'm afraid!
Click to expand...

Try them on a bright, sunny day, and I think you will see a difference at the higher powers.

Clear skies, Alan
 
Get the best setup you can afford- you will never regret getting too good optics. I broke my bank 13 years ago buying my Ziess binoculars and have never regreted it. Same with a scope- just make sure they are waterproof- and check out some of the warranty testimonials I have read in this forum.
 
I must admit from my experiences I'd advise to buy the best quality scope you can afford from the outset ie the higher quality glass of APO, HD, ED, Fluorite depending on the brand. With the higher end scopes then which brand you buy comes down to personal preference of the design. Some have dual focus controls as on the Leica, small focus knob as on the Kowa and helical focus as on the Swarovski.

If you definitly want a small light scope then personally I like the Kowa 613. Don't forget though that a decent tripod is still needed to hold it stable.

Having said that I don't think you can beat the 80+mm scopes for brightness of image in our dull climate, which have the advantage of digiscoping use whether now or sometime in the future. I'd recommend the Kowa 823M and Swarovski ATS 80 HD from personal experience, though the Leica and Zeiss are others I'd still consider.
 
Last edited:
Hi,
You really need to go & check out what suits you best,
Try the lot and make your decision from there, If you do plan to Digiscope in the future then APO,HD,ED is a must.
I bought a 77APO at the beginning of the year and i am very happy with it,
I opted for the larger scope, there is really not a big difference in price
I am not a dedicated birdwatcher as such, i use my scope for nature watching & casual astronomy so the weight is not an issue for me.

Go & take a look through your shortlist, it's important that you choose what suits you best, after all if it's a once in a lifetime purchase you don't want to look through someone else’s scope and find you prefer it to your own !
Enjoy.
Ian
 
Many thanks for all of your replies, the advice seems to be, try before I buy. Will get Ace Optics on the case.

I have an optician appointment to get through first, will see what she says.

btw, what does 'eye relief mean', seen that on a lot of other posts ? I have managed to understand most of the jargon, APO etc, but this eludes me.

Final question, is depth of field important ? I can understand people saying that fov is important, but why dof ? surely if you are looking at a special bird the depth of field is irrelevant. On the other hand, I guess if you are looking at a group of birds you want to see thjose 100 yards away and those 120 yards away.
 
Last edited:
Warning! This thread is more than 20 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

J
Better understanding the Leica range for a second-hand purchase
Replies
15
Views
1K
jb b
J
Craig H
Spotting Scopes - Personal needs and perceptions vs optical ability
Replies
6
Views
2K
Craig H
Craig H
Hermann
APM 6.5x32 APO - Some first impressions
Replies
16
Views
1K
Binocollector
B
H
Leica apo televid 77 problem.
Replies
2
Views
1K
Harare19
H
D
Sky Rover Banner Cloud 8x42 APO Review
2
Replies
29
Views
3K
dries1
dries1

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top