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Scottish Independence (1 Viewer)

cheshirebirder said:
How would it affect the RSPB.
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I am sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere and I missed it. The RSPB being under the jurisdiction of the Charity Commission would undoubtedly have to split as a charity along the lines of the National Trust and Scottish National Trust. There is a Scottish Charity regulator and the RSPB is already registered as a Charity with that. It may have to do it anyway under increased devolution even after a No vote. I suspect that practically they would still deal with environmental issues in the same way as they do now.
 
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I have been informed that SOC council have discussed the possible ramifications of a split but will make no decision until after the referendum...I wonder then if BOU and BBRC have discussed it too?
 
Perhaps we should ask the French/Germans/Swiss etc about National boundaries which are essentially political contained within a homogenous land mass which has rather different physical boundaries. I suspect no self respecting German would want to include the Bonelli's Warbler he ticked on his holiday in France onto his German list just because it is contained in the same land mass, which seems to be not too far from having things from an independent Scotland on your British list. An awful lot of National lists around the World would be pretty pointless if we justified them on the basis that the country is joined up to its neighbour (which happened to have a cracking bird or two.....)

Maybe Scottish birds will need to go on to your European list?

And as an aside, I am intrigued as to how they treat those areas where the boundary has moved back and forth depending upon who was winning the war that was waging at the time?
 
Capercaillie71 said:
None of this is insurmountable or really a problem though, is it? Our White-tailed Eagles were reintroduced from Norway, which isn't even in the EU. Also I think Scotland has exported Golden Eagles to the Republic of Ireland for reintroduction.
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Maybe not insurmountable, but a much bigger headache than it otherwise might be, and probably more expensive (due to duplication, licenses, admin, legalities, facilities, funding inefficiencies etc.) and complicated (Governmental and departmental whims/priorities/competition) and so less viable. A Yes vote is likely to produce a politically and socially bitter divorce, which will just make cross-border activities that much more difficult for years to come. And if one or the other is in the EU while the other isn't, then it gets even worse...
 
Birdspotter said:
Worth a read... http://www.britishbirds.co.uk/article/bb-eye-september-2014/
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The Universities element (where a lot of conservation work is done) is interesting, and one thing which the article doesn't touch upon is the funding aspect. Currently Scotland can get away with charging English/Welsh/NI students full fees because it is an 'internal' affair (not between EU states). presumably, should an independent Scotland enter the EU, they'd no longer be allowed to charge students from one member state like this, so would not be able to charge English/Welsh/NI students as now, and so would lose a big chunk of revenue that could hit Universities.
 
The list of consequences to a yes vote seems endless - even in the field of conservation.By the way , there's a few flags on peoples avatars that will need changing on here !
 
Bob Philpott said:
I am sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere and I missed it. The RSPB being under the jurisdiction of the Charity Commission would undoubtedly have to split as a charity along the lines of the National Trust and Scottish National Trust. There is a Scottish Charity regulator and the RSPB is already registered as a Charity with that. It may have to do it anyway under increased devolution even after a No vote. I suspect that practically they would still deal with environmental issues in the same way as they do now.
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While splitting the RSPB into UK and Scottish registered charities might well be sensible, I'm not sure it will "undoubtedly" have to happen. The RSPB already funds projects outside the UK (e.g. Sierra Leone, Sumatra), and there is no bar to it taking donations from outside the UK, or having overseas members. There will presumably be no legal prohibition on the RSPB continuing to own and manage land in Scotland, and I suspect it could carry on most of its activities as normal. One problem would be claiming gift aid from donations by Scottish members.

This does show just how unbelievably complex disentangling two developed nations is likely to be in the event of a Yes vote. I'm interested to know how the British overseas territories will be divvied-up - who gets to claim which bit of the British zone in Antarctica; who gets Pitcairn, Nightingale and Henderson, and so on. This issue does have serious implications for conservation of several global rare species.
 
AlfArbuthnot said:
A Yes vote is likely to produce a politically and socially bitter divorce, which will just make cross-border activities that much more difficult for years to come.
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Whatever rhetoric we might hear from politicians and the media when they are campaigning for votes at the moment, if there is a Yes vote it will be in the interests of both sides to negotiate as smooth and rapid a transition as possible. That is not to say that both sides will get everything they want, but I don't share your pessimism about the nature or length of the negotiations.
 
DMW said:
I'm interested to know how the British overseas territories will be divvied-up - who gets to claim which bit of the British zone in Antarctica; who gets Pitcairn, Nightingale and Henderson, and so on. This issue does have serious implications for conservation of several global rare species.
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I can't see Scotland having much interest in taking on overseas territories
 
Capercaillie71 said:
Whatever rhetoric we might hear from politicians and the media when they are campaigning for votes at the moment, if there is a Yes vote it will be in the interests of both sides to negotiate as smooth and rapid a transition as possible. That is not to say that both sides will get everything they want, but I don't share your pessimism about the nature or length of the negotiations.
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I agree to some extent, but there's a general election in 2015, and it is quite possible that the national (English) mood will be to back whoever balances the best deal for England and the worst terms for Scotland. I imagine that will also be the case in Scotland, going by the tone of the campaign, and as the Tories have nothing to lose in Scotland (MPs) they might well be very bullish, which would appeal to a lot of their electorate. Self interest and spite might be finely balanced on both sides!

Re overseas territories, I don't think Scotland would have any claim to those at all, as they are administered from the Foreign Office and are part of the system which Scotland is leaving? If it was ever raised, I guess there'd be a vote and they'd wish to remain under rUK jurisdiction (as in Falklands recently) due to the greater funding and protection that would afford. With a Socialist ideology, I doubt the SNP would want them anyway, as leaving one 'colonial system' on principle, only to start your own, would be a bit rich - and they're expensive to maintain.
 
It'll be interesting to see what effects Scottish independence might have on bird populations and distributions.

One obvious beneficial factor might be the revival of the Border Riever traditions; in the 15th-17th centuries right up to the Act of Union, these resulted in the human depopulation and near-cessation of grazing of the uplands for 10-20 km either side of the border, leading to extensive natural scrub woodland development in the no-mans land. A restoration of this might be a huge boost to bird populations in the area over the next 100-200 years.

One that would be particularly interesting to see would be the possibility of breeding Great Grey Shrikes; John Wallis (1769; Natural history and antiquities of Northumberland) claimed they bred in the Border Wastes, but this has never been accepted nationally. If they did return to breed in the border area, it might suggest that Wallis was correct.
 
Luckily the RSPB doesn't have a "British" in the name, and so it's a bit easier for them, especially as independent Scotland has no plans to get rid of the monarchy. I don't see what an issue with the RSPB working cross-border would be, unless the Scottish Government had any problem with it.
 
What about keeping separe lists based on date. IE post indy if that happens (and looking more likely every day) which is proposed as 2016 once all the wrangling is over, then any birds spotted anywhere in the British Isles can go on the country list and the pre indy lists would be frozen and consigned to history. Think of all the new ticking that will be going on, as if any of us needed an excuse with year lists etc. A lot of folk maintain a county/local patch list anyway.
 
Pete Mella said:
Luckily the RSPB doesn't have a "British" in the name, and so it's a bit easier for them, especially as independent Scotland has no plans to get rid of the monarchy. I don't see what an issue with the RSPB working cross-border would be, unless the Scottish Government had any problem with it.
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That (the monarchy issue) will be decided by the Goverment that is elected to the independent Scotland after independence along with any other changes that they decide to make. But as they will be answerable to the people and not the crown it might be a platform for election in future years, may after the current monarch dies.
 
Pete Mella said:
Luckily the RSPB doesn't have a "British" in the name, and so it's a bit easier for them, especially as independent Scotland has no plans to get rid of the monarchy. I don't see what an issue with the RSPB working cross-border would be, unless the Scottish Government had any problem with it.
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But should funds raised in the rest of the UK be spent running reserves in Scotland ? That is a major point . I'm happy to respond to an appeal to fund a reserve abroad , but do I want my general subs diverted to reserves in what would be a wealthy country ?
 
I don't really want to see the funds already raised and spent across the UK by RSPB wasted. I also don't want to see them hamstrung from opposing Trump and others of greasy Alex's acquaintance.

I very much hope the Scots will come to their senses, but if they don't I think throwing the baby out with the bathwater - or RSPB cutting its nose off to spite its face - would be madness.

John
 
cheshirebirder said:
But should funds raised in the rest of the UK be spent running reserves in Scotland ? That is a major point . I'm happy to respond to an appeal to fund a reserve abroad , but do I want my general subs diverted to reserves in what would be a wealthy country ?
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Apart from the conservation benefits which should be paramount, don't you already use these reserves? You will still be able to visit an independent Scotland you know; it'll take our corrupt and incompetent builders years to build "Hadrian's Wall II".
 
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