Initiallu identified the 1st winter bird as a Caspian, at range, but when it moved a lot closer, when the pictures were taken, it seems to take on a different persona. I've seen several large male Casps before but this bird just didn't have the same headshape and bill structure to those birds. Still felt and ID the bird as a Caspian but with run of local 'mixed bloods' felt there may be another answer.
The near adult type bird showed extensive dark marks in the primaries and the tails still had retained dark marks, to extensive fr a 4th winter bird, bird aged as a 3rd winter.
The adult hybrid, could be a LBBGxHG though the bill is on the big side, an unknown parentage bird I think it will have to go down as, damn hybrids.
Just over another month of local gulling for the season left, then looking forward to the summer juveniles...