The Bizarre Bresser Everest 8x28 (1 Viewer)

Hi,

the very nice and knowledgeable guy at BHphoto first recommended me an inexpensive Pentax reverse porro in 8x21 (I think it was the Pentax 8x21 U-Series UP - just had a quick look but then asked for the papillo) which was quite comparable to the 8.5x papillo - with its faults of small exit pupil and field of view but quite nice otherwise, light at 210g and it was 50 bucks.
Unfortunately Pentax doesn't seem to offer this in 6x, although they have now upgraded the series to 25mm tubes increasing weight and exit pupil but not field of view.

Joachim

jring said:

Hi,

the very nice and knowledgeable guy at BHphoto first recommended me an inexpensive Pentax reverse porro in 8x21 (I think it was the Pentax 8x21 U-Series UP - just had a quick look but then asked for the papillo) which was quite comparable to the 8.5x papillo - with its faults of small exit pupil and field of view but quite nice otherwise, light at 210g and it was 50 bucks.
Unfortunately Pentax doesn't seem to offer this in 6x, although they have now upgraded the series to 25mm tubes increasing weight and exit pupil but not field of view.

Joachim

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Yes Joachim. I had a look through some of their other offerings and thought the same. My Hawke 8x25 is about 108m fov and very sharp plus it folds with double hinge so it wouldn't make any sense for me to go for any of the other Pentax although I am sure the 8x25UP would be really excellent based on the Papilio.

Seems these small low mag bins are being discontinued, even the Olympus 7x21 seems to be being phased out or gone already but it doesn't seem to have been multicoated. I had an Olympus DPC 8x21 once but it was nowhere near as good as the 6.5x Papilio in fact the Olympus pretty much put me off 21mm size until now.


Something I noticed about the 6.5x Papilio that stands out very much is that within say a 10m or perhaps 20m radius everything seems very magnified (much more than 6.5x) and the fov narrower correspondingly but over distance they seem like a more normal 6.5x with 133m view.


I'm still hoping to get an improved version of the 8x25 Viking Vistron (or possibly 8x32) from whatever brand as I just really like them in that it is a sort of full size bin but yet a compact and great to use and handle but the optics certainly could be clearer and sharper although the view is comfortable, large and consistent across the whole 7 deg and of course completely glare free. If they weren't good I really wouldn't give them any time but I find I want to take them out with me so they must be working. I just love that when I am using them outdoors I really feel that I am getting a lot from such a small bin, an actually proper usable view and they even work close in very well also. I checked today and they seem to get down to about 80cm but by then it's one eye. I don't even think there is a picture of this Vistron on the web and it no longer seems available so I have something pretty rare it seems and it only cost £28 delivered and still has a 5 year warranty! A good deal I think. Probably originally cost over a hundred. I think it is multicoated with silver prisms and I assume phase coated as it handles CA without problems.

I'll try and add the pics from the seller. Ok seems to have worked. Haven't taken any of them myself yet. So this is the little bin that I bougth cheap on auction that has found my favour. It's about 11cm long.

CliveP said:

Something I noticed about the 6.5x Papilio that stands out very much is that within say a 10m or perhaps 20m radius everything seems very magnified (much more than 6.5x) and the fov narrower correspondingly but over distance they seem like a more normal 6.5x with 133m view.

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That is an illusion due to stereoscopic vision. The brain is kind of hard-wired for the stereo base of our IPD and changes in stereo base will make close objects - where stereo vision still exists - appear larger (with a smaller stereo base as in reverse porros) or smaller (in regular porros or some roofs with Abbe-Koenig Prisms with an offset). The effect should vanish if you just use one eye...

Joachim

jring said:

That is an illusion due to stereoscopic vision. The brain is kind of hard-wired for the stereo base of our IPD and changes in stereo base will make close objects - where stereo vision still exists - appear larger (with a smaller stereo base as in reverse porros) or smaller (in regular porros or some roofs with Abbe-Koenig Prisms with an offset). The effect should vanish if you just use one eye...

Joachim

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Thanks. Maybe that's why I seem to prefer roofs but in the case of the Papilio it is obviously useful but I imagine it's maybe even disorienting with the 8.5x.
I suppose the 8,5x seems to be trying to be two bins in one and not really succeeding at either. Better to buy an 8x25 Vistron but mine is definitely not for sale. To be honest if I would have tried the Vistron in the shop I would have noticed a lot of things not so stellar about it but what did hit me the moment I put it to my eyes was, oh yes finally a compact that has a relaxing and large view and it still gives me that impression. I just need a better version eventually but there's no rush. If nothing comes along in the next year or so I would probably try the new Atrek II. Meanwhile I had better get back to using my addictive Hawke Sapphire 8x43 or it will feel neglected.||||||

I took the Bresser out to have one more try with it as I wondered would it work well with the autumn colours plus I had been playing with trying to find the best diopter setting and thought I had achieved some improvement.

Well things started out quite well and I actually was getting it to focus pretty well and not to much glare in tough low sun autumn morning conditions and I really was beginning to think that perhaps I had been a bit harsh on it initially.

So I actually started to see that it could provide some sharp distant detail and sort of general usability and I noticed it not straining on the eyes as can happen with smaller 25mm objective bins.

BUT!

Somewhere along the way something seemed to happen to the diopter setting and I had to turn it completely full +and even then could have done with a slight bit more but it was actually working quite well. Then I noticed the focus wheel becoming stiff and thought it was just something to do with the grease unitl I looked at it more closely to discover that the wheel has started to wobble and work loose.

I emailed Bresser to see what they say as I think this bin could actually be a bit useful if I actually had one that worked properly. I think this one has been perhaps one of the worst of a bunch. Maybe if they give me a good one or fix this properly -but it's probably simpler to replace- then I might hopefully be able to report that it may in fact be a reasonable purchase but I'm still not sure I would recommend even a good one but if I could get the sharpness I glimpsed also with the low eyestrain and I don't even think this one is collimated that great, then it could possibly be like a different binocular.

Be interesting to see what they say. It sure didn't last very long. Two short outings. That's pretty bad and it was the 20 year warranty on their website that made me think it would at least be durable?

Maybe it will find the trash after all. At least the pouch and lens caps will come in handy. The strap is a bid daft or Bizarre yet again. A really wide bungee type with really narrow strap for the lugs of a compact.

Clive

You deserve a medal for patience and optimism, or a smack on the head to bring you back to reality :-O.

Sounds as though you had almost got to the 'holding hands' stage in this romance only to find that the other hand was dropping off. Shame.

Do let us know what happens next. I've got a feeling this story could turn into an autumn blockbuster or even a replacement for Downton Abbey

Good luck, Lee

Troubador said:

Clive

You deserve a medal for patience and optimism, or a smack on the head to bring you back to reality :-O.

Sounds as though you had almost got to the 'holding hands' stage in this romance only to find that the other hand was dropping off. Shame.

Do let us know what happens next. I've got a feeling this story could turn into an autumn blockbuster or even a replacement for Downton Abbey

Good luck, Lee

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Thanks Lee :t:

Yes it's all very bizzare is the word that keeps coming to mind.

I think you put it very succinctly. I still don't like the field of view but somehow it didn't seem as annoying as my Hawke Frontier 8x25 which seems like it has a little more but also somehow a more cramped view.

Funnily the colour the Bresser produced today reminded me a bit of my Hawke Sapphire except the Sapphire view seems about 4 times as large and better in every way but the Bresser also gave nice clear close viewing with both eyes at about 2.5m, it's closest, so I found that good about it also.

I don't think it has been working right from the start so I have never been able to get a proper sharp focus or determine really how good the dof is or edge sharpness of whatever.

The hinge is loose also and the eyecup rims stand about 10mm proud of the oculars which I've never seen before and don't think would be very useful to anyone with glasses? They're twist up with two well locking stages but seems there is an initial 10mm penalty for some reason. I just use them fully down.

It's under warranty at least for two years if not twenty but I asked about that as it states 20 on their site so by rights Bresser should at least look at it but I think I may need to post it to Germany unless I can ask them to just send me another and save me that bother and them having to waste their time on it but I suppose they will want to see how bad it is?

I think I just bought a dud auctioned off on ebay but the Vistron 8x25 was a much better similar deal. After the Bresser the view through the Vistron is massive which makes me like that one even more, but then the M7 10x30 is even bigger again and the Sapphire 8x43 even bigger again but still I was finding today that I was able to live with the Bresser and enjoying it's relative compactness so perhaps there is some hope of at least a friendship although probably not a BFF:-O

The sharpness I noticed did get my curiosity and then again I had to change my Hawke Sapphire recently from one sort of unusable and got a knock out of the park replacement in return. Could it happen again? Maybe I do need a smack on the head actually (thanks all for volunteering) but I do now think I made intial comments about this bin based on a dud and it isn't actually supposed to be as bad as that i.e. if I could get a good one it would be a lot better so worth at least trying. It might make it to holiday usable but I was able to view a lot of little birds today with nice definition even though the bin wasn't working as best it could so here's hoping.

Forget all these Questa's and latest super Kites or whatever. This is where it's at, the important stuff for the majority with no budget who shop at Aldi or visit foodbanks to then sell the stuff and buy drugs! That's Bresser country, hard hitting, the cutting edge.

I've a feeling I'm going to have to put on a lot of weight chomping on words.

CliveP said:

LOL. Those Papilio are making you evil! I'd love to see that choosing ceremony playing out. A bit risky for sure.

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Managed to resist the lure of the dark side (no cookies though...) and the 6.5x21 went to my godchild - who immediately loved it and my friends too.

Even better was the fact that I brought some cardboard kits to build a galileo telescope for every kid at the party which was a great success... although I had to use my Jedi powers to stay calm with six excited kids at the table fighting for the glue...

Chaos, yet harmony.

Joachim

jring said:

Managed to resist the lure of the dark side (no cookies though...) and the 6.5x21 went to my godchild - who immediately loved it and my friends too.

Even better was the fact that I brought some cardboard kits to build a galileo telescope for every kid at the party which was a great success... although I had to use my Jedi powers to stay calm with six excited kids at the table fighting for the glue...

Chaos, yet harmony.

Joachim

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That's a lucky godchild, it's such a great little binocular but will it stand the abuse and I wonder would they have actually preferred the 8.5x?

Bresser got back to me very quickly wanting to see the receipt copy by email to determine the warranty so I basically laid the bin (waste) scenario on the line and pointed them here to read my thoughts so far and sent the ebay details. I just can't be bothered sending it back and all the pulava so I wouldn't really blame Bresser if they told me to get stuffed or just don't respond but I hope they don't so lets see what happens. I tried the Bresser again this morning and it's basically unusable now with not being able to get a focus so it's definitely trash but maybe Bresser will replace it without bother.

CliveP said:

That's a lucky godchild, it's such a great little binocular but will it stand the abuse and I wonder would they have actually preferred the 8.5x?

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Time will tell with the abuse - I suspect yes since the girl got eight and seemed to understand to handle it with care.
And if not, it was less money sunk than a shiny new smartphone which will be obsolete in two years anyways - although this was not really on the agenda with her yet.

I didn't show the 8x since I think 6x is better to hold for a kid. Maybe I'll bring the 8x sometime later for some outdoor activity with them and we'll see...

Joachim

jring said:

Time will tell with the abuse - I suspect yes since the girl got eight and seemed to understand to handle it with care.
And if not, it was less money sunk than a shiny new smartphone which will be obsolete in two years anyways - although this was not really on the agenda with her yet.

I didn't show the 8x since I think 6x is better to hold for a kid. Maybe I'll bring the 8x sometime later for some outdoor activity with them and we'll see...

Joachim

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Think you missed a trick there. She just reached 8 years old, or a little over, maybe soon 8.5. See the connection?

Hey godchild look, I got you a special binocular just with your age on it.8-P

Next stop 9x36 then 10x42......

Don't think I'm flavour of the month down Bresser way. It's all gone very quiet from there.

Vieleicht hatte Ich auf Deutsch schreiben sollte aber mein Deutsch ist ziemlich scheiss, sowie meine English!

I sent Bresser a couple more test emails and with no replies so it does seem that they are ignoring me or closed down for good hopefully.

Anyhow I thought wait a minute, this crowd Optixmania sold me the bins as new with no return but since they are NEW they should come with a warranty so I requested an ebay refund although I would accept an exchange for a good one if there were such a thing or possibly a credit on something else.

Haven't heard from them yet either so not thinking they are going to play nicely which makes me wonder about the no return with the Bresser but they seem to accept it with other models? Maybe they knew something which is probably that they are rubbish and will most certainly fail.

I can only assume with Bresser that they have some major issue with just giving a customer an exchange pair that would work so I have to assume that this wouldn't actually be possible because none of the bins work so they go into quick lets hide mode.

They probably just had to many requests for similar problems to mine.

So there it is, Bresser. Their motto, "Screw you, it's your problem if you bought some of our junk".

Which brings me to the most hilarious part. Bresser actually state a 20 year warranty on their website which is why I bought them. That seems to be extremely misleading if not downright lies.

One last thing occurred to me also. How can a company specify No Return when the law here I think says you have so many days to decide if you want to keep something or return it? My reason is it's faultiness otherwise I was actually beginning to find it useful so Bresser could have given me some service and possibly had a good outcome so again I have to assume they knew this wouldn't have been possible or else they are just plain terrible.

You can probably tell I don't like Bresser.

I bought two other bins on ebay recently and no issue with either whatsoever so I don't go out of my way to complain if there is no problem. I think ebay will recognise that hopefully as I feel very dissatisfied about this whole thing and it's not about the little money I paid. Thankfully I didn't loose more though.

. If I had this problem with a similar binocular I would only have two questions.

Do I put the binocular in the recycle bin?
Or do I put it in the bin for general household waste?

The binocular should never have left the factory.

Then just forget it. Life is too short for these types of hassles.

Very true.

I'm calm but I would kind of like to drop it off Everest but that would then be more litter for there 8-P

I'm sure Bresser have skip loads :eek!:

I always knew Bresser are GREAT:t:

Didn't I always say that8-P

So dear Thomas at Bresser.de explains and -apologises very nicely as do I- that they have been very busy and low staffed through illness while trying to handle queries from all over Europe.

He sent me the necessary labeling to return the item to them to be checked out and so they are all packed and I will post them this morning.

I'm a lot happier I have to say now that something is happening and do feel rather bad now about the things I said. It's pretty lucky that I didn't destroy them after all but it was extremely close.

So a fresh start and I do look forward to seeing how well these binoculars really can work when functioning properly as I have already said a few good things about them also and if it does get resolved then I think I will actually have got a bit of an auction bargain after all and probably would actually be able to recommend them for their compactness, prettiness, sharpness and nice colour and contrast and being non tiring on the eyes although I do hope the glare problem doesn't arise as it did the first time in evening low sun but didn't seem that bad in low morning sun but obviously something had been going on with the focusing between times.

A good start to the day is always nice and I suppose I can forget about that ebay refund also which is yet more goodness.

Thank you Bresser.


Edit: here is pic. more here http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=3292879#post3292879

Didn't we all say how great Bresser are!

Perhaps they will change the glass in my 15x60 Bresser.
Actually I had two, to balance my arm excercises.

Please, please, Bresser. I don't want a return label. They are a memory only now. Well about 15 years old by now.

Binastro said:

Didn't we all say how great Bresser are!

Perhaps they will change the glass in my 15x60 Bresser.
Actually I had two, to balance my arm excercises.

Please, please, Bresser. I don't want a return label. They are a memory only now. Well about 15 years old by now.

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Aww that's sweet. Keeping BOTH your beloved Bresser all these years.

Bressers biggest fan

I could do with another door stop you just remind me but I have total faith in the expert technicians at this great great company.

IT'S BACK:clap::t:

Round two.

Sun is coming up (was delivered yesterday evening, already dark) so I'm looking at it again against my Hawke Frontier 8x25 PC & Viking Vistron 8x25.

So far Hawke is sharpest and clearest with best contrast and very accurate focus but smallest view, Vistron biggest view and perhaps brightest overall but it's basically a real chore to get it to a sharp focus due to slack in focuser so I probably will ask Viking if they can do anything about it and it has lowish contrast. Vistron very good glare control and no CA issue.

The Bresser seems to be a bin for daylight only really despite it's larger objectives. I see more CA and more glare also. In this still low overcast morning it's kind of being outperformed by the other two it seems.

I'll give a few more thoughts after I've spent the day with it. I'm sure it's going to get better when the light gets up as it seems to still have the good colour (which is basically the main reason I like it) and I know it does have good contrast and sharpness when the light is enough and this one they sent seems to be better collimated and the focuser now works, the hinge is tight etc. I'm actually surprised it had the lowest low light performance in this little test this morning but that's how it looks.

If the Vistron would focus it would be the winner here. I must contact Viking. As it is the Hawke gets round one of Bresser round two if you see what I mean:eek!:

This is just an indoor sitting at the window test so I know when out then the Hawke will show it's weak glare handling. I'll try and bring all three out later and see if I can deduce anything meaningful.

I'm still glad I got a good working Bresser so thanks to them and I'm sure the underdog will fare better out later, possibly even very well with the autumn colours so I definitely will go try that.

So onto stage two of part two of my test process.

Yes the fag and Rosie lea at the back door test (not what you Americans are probably thinking8-P).

This is actually a really good test for glare as the glass in my back door (to the garden) reflects light across the front of the bins and if they are glare prone then it will show here.

So the Hawke gets eliminated and so should the Bresser really but since it's the subject then I suppose it has to stay.

There is a nice view of trees and gulls flying about and various birds on the lawns around like pied wagtails so these were my targets to try for most definition. Also those silver chrome type car brand signs on the cars I find to be good targets and the Bresser didn't score highly here compared to the other two in fact with nothing so far does it stand out as a winner I am very sorry to say.

The Vistron wins and it doesn't even focus properly.

I know as I have said previously that the Bresser can perform nicely at times, probably during summer is best. It's well priced and is nice to handle and looks good with good accessories and it has good lens coatings for nice colours and if that could be put into the Vistron then that would be super.

I'm saying what I think about it and trying here to think what others would expect and want and so I couldn't honestly point anyone to buying this Everest 8x28. It needs to do better simply put. It needs less glare, wider field would be nice, and brighter would also be a plus. You can bird with it on a good day and it would be great for a tourist holiday travel bin or car bin or hiking or such but personally I'd probably seek better even if I had to pay more and I can't blame the binocular not working because this one does, so that's that pretty much. I know I preferred the Bresser over my Vistron during summer when using it as a back garden bin because it had better pleasing colour and contrast than the Vistron so that's probably how I will use it again although I'm sure I will grab it for some outdoor use occasionally.

All of the three bins I've discussed have their problems but the Vistron clearly shows the most potential and it's not even made anymore?

There is something odd though about this Bresser that I did notice before but didn't mention and it is that you do keep wanting to have a look through it. I just can't exactly grasp why but I think I get a certain amount of that with all three of them. It's as if you are thinking maybe this time it will look good and sometimes with all three this does actually work so I guess it's the one that most often looks good is probably best and that would be the Vistron but on a good day the one that can look the best could actually be the Bresser, or maybe even the Hawke such as this morning. I guess what I am saying is the Vistron is most consistent and the Bresser with it's great colour etc can be the most pleasing. When the Bresser works well in bright enough light it is nice.

It's getting brighter and you can see the clarity and sharpness of the Bresser improving so I have been a little bit harsh in not doing the comparison later or on a brighter day. There still definitely is something about the Bresser that I like and I guess that's an improvement on my very first impression at least. I guess each of the three bins have strengths that if combined would surely be something very good.

Would I wholeheartedly recommend it. It's actually difficult to say. For me I'd spend more if needed and look for better but for anyone not bothered it probably is worth the £100 asking price but I suspect there are better 8x25 out there so where it falls down is it doesn't actually do what you would want of a bin with larger objectives i.e. it isn't more effective in lower light but it is pretty in good light. I guess that sums it up probably right there. You decide.

So that's a wrap. The End. Now just wondering can I get my Vistron focus serviced with Viking?

Ok I thought I was finished here but I like to say something good about a bin also if I can and this morning is an autumn beauty.

The morning mist is clear and the sun is shining and the Bresser is starting to look good. It's those colours again. It really must have something in common with my Hawke Sapphire although certainly nowhere near as blindingly bright as the Sapphire.

Heading out shortly so should have a chance to see the Bresser at it's best.

Just tried my Kowa SV 8x32 against the Bresser and the Kowa has about twice the view size and much brighter which you would kind of expect but there is more colour saturation with the Bresser . The Kowa is still very nice in these conditions. Just mention that for some perspective. My M7 is much the same relative to the Bresser also.

I'm just pointing out that the Bresser isn't completely usless but I don't think it's going to be something of much interest to the lets say the discerning folks around here. I'm using it because it's there and a the moment it is one of my alternatives to a larger bin but it's really about the same size as the M7 so I don't honestly really see the point of it except maybe on a really tight budget?

It's not really compact enough or performs well enough to be a sought after alternative to an 8x30 for example.

Hopefully it works well out today and I will report back later.