Pine bunting or yellowhammer? - Verona, Italy (1 Viewer)

giaina

Member

• Nov 25, 2012

• #1

Hi all!

Bird seen yesterday 24.11.2012 in a small flock of Yellowhammer. The bird was on a row of trees near paddyfields, the few calls I heard was very similar to Yellowhammer (similar or identical? I can't say). Breast clearly white, as the primary edge. No yellow seen on the bird.
I was under the trees on the dirt road which run alorg the row, as you can see in the video:

http://youtu.be/NYmF3h3I6Bk

What do you think about it? I suppose it's a 1stW Pine Bunting, it could be an important sighting for my area.
I attach some snapshots also.

Thank you very much,

Paolo Bertini
Verona Birdwatching
EBN445

 

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giaina

Member

• Nov 25, 2012

• #2

3 more

 

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Jane Turner

Well-known member

• Nov 25, 2012

• #3

Its a very hard ID to prove - I can't for example see the median coverts well enough. Do you have any photos showing the upperparts. It appears to be an adult on the tail feather shape.

I assume that you ruled out Rustic and Reed bunting on call.....

 

MJB

Well-known member

• Nov 25, 2012

• #4

Jane Turner said:

Its a very hard ID to prove - I can't for example see the median coverts well enough. Do you have any photos showing the upperparts. It appears to be an adult on the tail feather shape.

Click to expand...

Indeed. There's a large geographic area that holds an intermediate and likely clinal breeding population. When Clive Byers was working on the illustrations for Buntings and Sparrows, he realised that many of the specimens in the (I think Swedish) museums were intermediate in plumage between the two species.:eek!:
MJB

 

giaina

Member

• Nov 25, 2012

• #5

Thank you Jane and MJB, I agree it's a hard id!

I'm waiting for more replies, any further opinion is welcome.

Ciao,

Paolo

 

O

OlaB

Well-known member

• Nov 26, 2012

• #6

Impossible to say for certain from these pictures even though it well could be a Pine Bunting.

Jane, what do you mean with the median coverts? Or did you mean lesser?

 

Jane Turner

Well-known member

• Nov 26, 2012

• #7

I actually meant both - white tips to the medians with are easier to see than the lessers.

 

O

OlaB

Well-known member

• Nov 26, 2012

• #8

Easier to see yes, but is it very useful when distinguishing between Pine Bunting and Yellowhammer?

 

Jane Turner

Well-known member

• Nov 26, 2012

• #9

I 've been carrying it round in my head for years, as a good way of ruling out a safe Pine bunting if the tips are warm..... though maybe I made that up!

 

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OlaB

Well-known member

• Nov 26, 2012

• #10

I think that coverts looking like your Yellowhammers indeed rule out Pine but coverts like your Pine Buntings don't safely rule out pale Yellowhammers. ;-)

 

Jane Turner

Well-known member

• Nov 26, 2012

• #11

That's just about what I was saying.

 

O

OlaB

Well-known member

• Nov 26, 2012

• #12

Jane Turner said:

That's just about what I was saying.

Click to expand...

Sorry! Then we agree.

 

Valéry Schollaert

Respect animals, don't eat or wear their body or s

• Nov 26, 2012

• #13

Hybrids Yellowhammer x Pine Buting are common...