The Best 'Alpha' Binoculars for Those of Us With Tremors (2 Viewers)

ceasar · Nov 29, 2015

NDhunter said:
Bob:

It is good you have brought up another choice, the 8x32 EDG.

They are at the top optically, and since you mention the weight,
there are some users that like some weight to their binoculars, as
it helps them hold them steadier.

Jerry

I have the 10x32 EDG II version. It is well balanced and has large comfortable eye cups which I can brace up against and just under my brow ridge to keep it steady. I find it very easy to use.

The easy to slip on horned eye cups that come standard with the binoculars are IMO the best eye cups in the business for controllling stray light from the side and rear.

Bob

tenex · Dec 2, 2015

Lopaka said:
My friend with the Swaro EL's points out that the Zeiss FL's design adapts to work with their user more than the EL's - with their defined grip area - do.

This is a problem with "ergonomic" grips on anything: why be obliged to hold just where someone else with different hands thought you should? I'm not a fan of the raised thumb ridges on the larger Leicas lately, and Swaro-style indentations are even worse.

I also don't understand the continuing attraction of the open-bridge design. I suppose it's reminiscent of Porro glasses, but doesn't make as much sense when the barrels are so close. Thanks for your special perspective on the disadvantage.

I'm sorry to hear about your PD, and wish you many more years of birding with whatever works best. By the time he was 50 my father was having trouble holding binos steady, probably just due to a lifetime of heavy smoking! His preferred solution was a massive Zeiss 7x50.

Troubador · Dec 2, 2015

tenex said:
I also don't understand the continuing attraction of the open-bridge design. I suppose it's reminiscent of Porro glasses, but doesn't make as much sense when the barrels are so close.

Eric

You should try the SF which has more room around the barrels than Swaro's EL.

Lee

Lopaka · Dec 3, 2015

tenex said:
This is a problem with "ergonomic" grips on anything: why be obliged to hold just where someone else with different hands thought you should? I'm not a fan of the raised thumb ridges on the larger Leicas lately, and Swaro-style indentations are even worse.

I also don't understand the continuing attraction of the open-bridge design. I suppose it's reminiscent of Porro glasses, but doesn't make as much sense when the barrels are so close. Thanks for your special perspective on the disadvantage.

I'm sorry to hear about your PD, and wish you many more years of birding with whatever works best. By the time he was 50 my father was having trouble holding binos steady, probably just due to a lifetime of heavy smoking! His preferred solution was a massive Zeiss 7x50.

Thanks Eric, I'm presently doing just fine. Just wanted to get a good discussion documented for anyone who's stuck with the same issue won't have to wonder what alternatives exist for them. Our observations and opinions regarding design ergonomics coincide quite closely. These Zeiss FL's are really lovely binoculars.

As you say Lee, I too hope the new SF design is an improvement over the Swaro open-bridge design which is a bit self-limiting ergonomically. Still, an open-bridge won't work well for those of us with tremors.

My best regards to you both, and to all of you that took the trouble to comment on this topic.

-Lopaka

Lopaka · Oct 29, 2016

Hi Everyone,

After nearly one year, I'm just checking back in with a bit more info on the topic of optics for those of us with tremors.

I had occasion recently to try the Nikon 'Stabileyes' which are electronically image-stabilized binoculars...and it was not a pretty sight. They are, at nearly 40 oz., about double the weight of my Zeiss Victory FL 8x32's, and this caused my resting tremors (from Parkinson's Disease) to really go nuts. My shaking was far beyond the ability of these fine binoculars to cope. I immediately went back to my Zeiss's and, as before, my tremors ceased to be an issue. Just wanted to pass this further tidbit of information along so someone researching this issue on-line will have a more complete analysis of this issue and options.

-Lopaka

Binastro · Oct 29, 2016

Hi Lopaka.

Have you tried the Canon 8x25 IS? It uses a different type of stabilization. At least the present production. The older form of stabilizer was not as good.
It is much lighter than most IS binoculars. About 19 ounces.

It takes a lithium camera type battery, which means you should have some spares. 1 CR123A lithium battery.
It is not waterproof, and the optical windows may fall out, but it gives fantastic stability, but of course I don't know if you would find it suitable.

Eye relief is given as 13.5mm. With its 3.1mm exit pupil maybe it can be used without glasses, even by those who use glasses.

Pileatus · Oct 29, 2016

Lopaka said:
Hi Everyone,

After nearly one year, I'm just checking back in with a bit more info on the topic of optics for those of us with tremors.

I had occasion recently to try the Nikon 'Stabileyes' which are electronically image-stabilized binoculars...and it was not a pretty sight. They are, at nearly 40 oz., about double the weight of my Zeiss Victory FL 8x32's, and this caused my resting tremors (from Parkinson's Disease) to really go nuts. My shaking was far beyond the ability of these fine binoculars to cope. I immediately went back to my Zeiss's and, as before, my tremors ceased to be an issue. Just wanted to pass this further tidbit of information along so someone researching this issue on-line will have a more complete analysis of this issue and options.

-Lopaka

Your very personal experience is one of the finest examples of, "try before you buy", along with the proclamation, "to each his own." Thank you for sharing your touching story .

Lopaka · Nov 6, 2016

No, I haven't tried or even seen the Canon binoculars you're referring to Binastro, but will keep my eyes open for them and will let you know when I do try them - thank you for your referral.

You're welcome Pileatus. You're certainly correct in reminding us to "try before you buy."

garymh · Nov 7, 2016

Hermann said:
AFAIK the FL 8x32 is discontinued.

Hermann

Hi,

The 8x32 and 10x32 FLs are still available and have not been discontinued.

binomaniac · Nov 7, 2016

Hi, i just buy an Kowa Genesis 10x33. wow ! steady as a rock ! I never been able to keep an 10x binocular steady. I have an Zeiss FL 10x56 and this Kowa is much steadier. I think the 8x33 Kowa Genesis must be even better in this aspect.

bdg1 · Nov 28, 2016

+1 for Canon IS bino's. I have 10x36 which I find has decent optics and use it for stargazing etc. I have read the latest Canon IS has updated optics and you can find something which isn't heavy.

I find IS very effective, and lets you see more for sure. Make sure you use Lithium ION batteries for best performance and longer life.

Binastro · Nov 28, 2016

Lithium AA throw away batteries are not recommended for the Canon 10x30 Mk II or 12x36 Mk III.
O.K. for the others.

Panasonic (Sanyo) eneloops are o.k. I think.

bdg1 · Nov 28, 2016

Binastro said:
Lithium AA throw away batteries are not recommended for the Canon 10x30 Mk II or 12x36 Mk III.
O.K. for the others.

Panasonic (Sanyo) eneloops are o.k. I think.

Interesting, I am using them on mine and been fine. Perhaps the new models are the one with issues.

Binastro · Nov 28, 2016

It is the new ones that the instruction book advises non use of lithium AAs.

etudiant · Nov 28, 2016

Binastro said:
It is the new ones that the instruction book advises non use of lithium AAs.

Interesting change.
The lithium batteries have a somewhat higher voltage and work well in my older Canon 10x42s. They are also great for use in a cheap laser pointer, but may be stressful to the IS circuitry, where their extra voltage may just blow a newly miniaturized circuit.

BruceH · Nov 29, 2016

Binastro said:
Lithium AA throw away batteries are not recommended for the Canon 10x30 Mk II or 12x36 Mk III.
O.K. for the others.

Panasonic (Sanyo) eneloops are o.k. I think.

I wonder why Canon does not recommend the AA throw away lithium batteries. My initial thought was a voltage difference but I seemed to remember that the lithium in question has the same nominal voltage as AA alkaline batteries. So, I looked up the specs for both in the Energizer brand and both are nominal 1.5 volts and the sizes look to be the same.

AA Energizer Alkaline - Nominal 1.5 Volts

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/E91.pdf

AA Energizer Lithium - Nominal 1.5 Volts

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf

There is a difference between the above and nickel–metal hydride (NiMH) batteries in that the NiMH batteries have a lower nominal voltage of 1.2 volts. They seem to work fine because the voltage of standard batteries drop rather rapidly compared to NiMH Eneloop batteries that maintain voltage.

Scroll down to the second Q&A for a discharge graph comparison of the rechargeable Eneloop AA NiMH.

https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/battery/eneloop/technologies.html

It would be great if someone could offer an explanation of why the AA alkaline battery is acceptable but the same nominal voltage lithium is not. The only thing that comes to mind is the lithium holds a higher voltage longer under a load.

etudiant · Nov 29, 2016

BruceH said:
I wonder why Canon does not recommend the AA throw away lithium batteries. My initial thought was a voltage difference but I seemed to remember that the lithium in question has the same nominal voltage as AA alkaline batteries. So, I looked up the specs for both in the Energizer brand and both are nominal 1.5 volts and the sizes look to be the same.

AA Energizer Alkaline - Nominal 1.5 Volts

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/E91.pdf

AA Energizer Lithium - Nominal 1.5 Volts

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf

There is a difference between the above and nickel–metal hydride (NiMH) batteries in that the NiMH batteries have a lower nominal voltage of 1.2 volts. They seem to work fine because the voltage of standard batteries drop rather rapidly compared to NiMH Eneloop batteries that maintain voltage.

Scroll down to the second Q&A for a discharge graph comparison of the rechargeable Eneloop AA NiMH.

https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/battery/eneloop/technologies.html

It would be great if someone could offer an explanation of why the AA alkaline battery is acceptable but the same nominal voltage lithium is not. The only thing that comes to mind is the lithium holds a higher voltage longer under a load.

The curves in the documents show that the lithium batteries deliver higher voltage initially than the alkalines, about 1.7V vs 1.5V. Maybe that little difference is enough to cause issues, but it seems peculiar.

Binastro · Nov 29, 2016

The problem was that there were instances of mixed charge lithium AAs.
I cannot remember the details, but maybe a fully charged AA could drain into a lesser charged or vice versa and potentially catch fire.
I am not sure if this is correct, but it was a safety issue.
I'll try to look up the instruction book if I can find it for the 10x30 Mk II, and if it says the reason.
All older models are fine and their instruction books recommend lithium, particularly when cold.

Don't forget lithium batteries destroyed a Boeing Dreamliner, I think. Luckily on the ground. And many laptops and phones have spontaneously combusted. Lithium burns nicely I think if it is given a chance.
Some phones are banned on aircraft and Royal Mail will not deliver lithium batteries any more in normal post at least.
Carriers have to mark the parcels 'Lithium batteries'.

I got some supposedly good quality lithium batteries for my laptop as the 4 cell batteries are no longer made by the laptop maker.
Complete junk. Chinese of course, and useless after a few months.

I wonder whether lithium battery electric cars can burst into flame.

Some houses have been lost due to laptops exploding.

I don't know whether lithium AAs have the same chemistry as lithium ion laptop batteries.

Binastro · Nov 29, 2016

Canon Inc 2015
10x30 IS II
12x36 IS III
Warning (regarding the batteries)

2) In rare cases some AA size lithium batteries will reach extremely high temperatures. For your safety, please refrain from using AA size lithium batteries.

4) Always replace both batteries at the same time. In addition please do not use different brand batteries together or a new battery with an old battery. Doing so can cause battery leakage, ignitions and explosions which may lead to fire or personal injury.

Etc. etc.

So always wear Nomex underwear and keep your fire extinguisher handy.

BruceH · Nov 29, 2016

That is interesting. I would think high temps come from a high charge or discharge rate. Is there something about the circuit design that can cause a rapid discharge?

One other advantage of the throw away lithium over the alkaline, in addition to the cold weather performance, is the lithium is less likely to leak. Alkaline batteries are terrible for leaking so either take them out when not using the binocular or check them frequently.

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