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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Home made doubler idea (1 Viewer)

S

statestat

Well-known member
In the woods today while sitting and looking for an owl I found that Zeiss Victory 8x20 in my coat pocket. I then noticed that they fit very well inside the eye-cups (in the extended position) of my SteinerXP 8x44.

Amazingly I could focus them but the range was very narrow and extremely shakey. I guess this setup would be 16x, do you add the magnification when combined? It is virtually unusable, unless maybe if you had a tripod.

OK bins experts what about a real low powered bin like the Zeiss Diadem which I think are 3x. I have never seen a pair except in catalogs. If they fit into the eye-cups would it be 11x and possibly not too shakey. Does anyone have a pair of these to try. I like the idea of adding extra power to both barrels kind of like a 'poor boys' Leica Duovid . Would this work?
 
That would be 64x mag, Statestat!

I happened to have a similar experience, but unintended, when I had my Canon 18x50 IS's mounted on a tripod and accidently looked through them with my Canon 10x30 IS's. I saw tree leaves in a very, very dim image. I got 180x mag. Totally unusable, but fun to experience.

Your suggestion of a 3x mag small bino is not so bad! You'd have 24x mag with them on your 8x44 Steiners. That would just be useable in the field if you could rest your Steiners on something.

Best regards, Ronald

PS : As an aside: I'm curious how the Nano coatings on your Steiners work in the rain?
Do they repel water?
 
Wow 64x that is incredable and I was able to see at dusk.

O yes the Nano coating works great, on the way back to the car we had freezing rain today and I just blew off the drops, nothing sticks to it. I had a finger print on the objective once(friend used it) and just a very light swirl with a cotton ball removed it. It reminds me of RainX that we put on our car windshelds here. It is a wonder, but I have not tried using them in the rain.
 
I have a Sony 1.7X Teleconverter that I use with my camera. One day I thought "what happens if I hold that puppy up to the Objective end of my binoculars?". Hey it worked!:t:

I held it up against one of the 42mm objectives and just used one eye. I focused the bins and it worked fine. really rather amazing to me. I was thinking of making up an adapter so I could hook it to one objective and that way I could have 1.7X my 8X42 when I wanted to see far away. I haven't done it yet, but I've got some ideas on how to do it, so it's easy on, easy off........
 
wanderer1942 said:
I have a Sony 1.7X Teleconverter that I use with my camera. One day I thought "what happens if I hold that puppy up to the Objective end of my binoculars?". Hey it worked!:t:

I held it up against one of the 42mm objectives and just used one eye. I focused the bins and it worked fine. really rather amazing to me. I was thinking of making up an adapter so I could hook it to one objective and that way I could have 1.7X my 8X42 when I wanted to see far away. I haven't done it yet, but I've got some ideas on how to do it, so it's easy on, easy off........
Click to expand...

Good experiment, I hadn't thought of using the objective lens.
Hope you can invent some adapter, it would be very useful, I can imagine.
I wonder if two similar Teleconverters would work with an adapter on both objectives? That would give binocular 1.7x extra mag. Or will collimation be a problem?

Best regards,

Ronald
 
statestat said:
Wow 64x that is incredable and I was able to see at dusk.

:t:

O yes the Nano coating works great, on the way back to the car we had freezing rain today and I just blew off the drops, nothing sticks to it. I had a finger print on the objective once(friend used it) and just a very light swirl with a cotton ball removed it. It reminds me of RainX that we put on our car windshelds here. It is a wonder, but I have not tried using them in the rain.
Click to expand...

Thanks Statestat,

That's really good info.
I haven't had time to check out the Steiner 8x44 XP's or Discovery's yet.
I consider good working rain repellent Nano coatings a very, very big plus. My Canon IS's don't have it and I have to use a rainguard to keep water off the oculars. It's in the way all the time and though it does its work well, I'd be better off without it.
The specs of the Steiners are more interesting to me right now than those of the Zeiss 8x56 Classics. But I have to see them both if I want to be able to decide which one I'll get. The problem is that I haven't found a store yet who has them both, for direct comparison. Two stores each stock one but not the other, if I find time I'll go and check them out anyway.
I'll let you know on the Night bins/Owling bins thread in due time.

Best regards,

Ronald
 
KorHaan said:
Good experiment, I hadn't thought of using the objective lens.
Hope you can invent some adapter, it would be very useful, I can imagine.
I wonder if two similar Teleconverters would work with an adapter on both objectives? That would give binocular 1.7x extra mag. Or will collimation be a problem?

Best regards,

Ronald
Click to expand...

It would work. It won't affect collimination since it's before the bins. It just magnifies. 2X would work as well. There's also a 3X teleconverter as well, but I've never tried it. Those TC's can be found all over and especially on ebay. Mine is 58mm at the threaded end and 72mm at the front, so glass on the threaded end is about 45mm. You just want to have the TC with a larger diameter than the bins.

When I tried mine, I found that the diameter of the back of the TC was just about the same as the front of the bin and I immediately thought of using some of the heavy tubing used to shrink around big battery packs. I have some that is about 60mm, so it would shrink up tight with a hair dryer and hold the TC in place, but then it would be more or less permanent and I didn't want that.

Actually it's probably just as cost effective to buy another pair of bins with a higher power, like Celestron or Barska. I just like to play with different ideas though.........
 
Turn your bins into close-up bins.

How about making your bins into close up bins? Take a 1x close up filter for a camera lens and hold it up against the objective lens of a bin and you can focus on something just a couple feet away and it will also be magnified. You have to experiment, it might be 3 feet or 2 feet or 4 feet, depending on your bin, but it works and once you get the hang of it, you can study those insects or butterflies close up........
 
wanderer1942 said:
It would work. It won't affect collimination since it's before the bins. It just magnifies. 2X would work as well. There's also a 3X teleconverter as well, but I've never tried it. Those TC's can be found all over and especially on ebay. Mine is 58mm at the threaded end and 72mm at the front, so glass on the threaded end is about 45mm. You just want to have the TC with a larger diameter than the bins.

When I tried mine, I found that the diameter of the back of the TC was just about the same as the front of the bin and I immediately thought of using some of the heavy tubing used to shrink around big battery packs. I have some that is about 60mm, so it would shrink up tight with a hair dryer and hold the TC in place, but then it would be more or less permanent and I didn't want that.

Actually it's probably just as cost effective to buy another pair of bins with a higher power, like Celestron or Barska. I just like to play with different ideas though.........
Click to expand...

A couple of 2x mag teleconverters with adapters would be great on the
Canon 10x42 L IS's. You'd have 20x42's with a stabilized image.
I have 18x50 Canons myself, so I know the stabilization actually makes 18x mag useable in the field, handheld.
With the 10x42 Canons plus 2x teleconverters you'd have a dual mag 10x -20x bin that is stable. Better than Leica Duovid, because you don't need a monopod.
Wow.

Would this work? It's almost too simple for words!

Best regards,

Ronald
 
KorHaan said:
A couple of 2x mag teleconverters with adapters would be great on the
Canon 10x42 L IS's. You'd have 20x42's with a stabilized image.
I have 18x50 Canons myself, so I know the stabilization actually makes 18x mag useable in the field, handheld.
With the 10x42 Canons plus 2x teleconverters you'd have a dual mag 10x -20x bin that is stable. Better than Leica Duovid, because you don't need a monopod.
Wow.

Would this work? It's almost too simple for words!

Best regards,

Ronald
Click to expand...

Yes it should work with the Canon bins. Now whether it stops "shake" completely, I don't know. It certainly would be better than a non IS bin.

As far as the Teleconverters themselves, you need to do some research. There are MANY CHEAP ones and they are Terrible! There are only a handfull that are optically ok. One is made by Canon, One is made by Sony (both are 1.7X I believe and one is by Olympus. (B-300) but it's very hard to find...... There is the Raynox line and they make some expensive ones. I would have to do some searching because I don't remember all the names, but search "best 2x teleconverter lens" or "best teleconverter" might get you some hits.....

I have tried my 1.7X on my 8x40mm and on my wife's Leitz. It works, but remember, as in any TC, you loose close up. In other words it will be farther away for minimum focus and that will depend on the bins and the converter. Also it will depend on the bins on how well oyu focus. On my wife's Leitz I get good focus control from around 40 yards out to infinity. With my cheap bins I get focus from about 60 yards out to about 250 yards and then loose focus again. I also got good focus control on the Pentax 10x50 I had. So it will depend on the bins and the TC in combination. You might want to make sure you can return whatever you buy.

Another thing to remember is the more pieces of glass you put out there, the lower the optical quality. You will loose the "edges", so the sweet spot in the center will get somewhat smaller. The edges will get fuzzier. One way to prevent that would be to get a converter that is 72mm at the threaded end. That leaves the glass at about 65mm, so it's larger than the bins and you use more of the "center of the TC".
 
Last edited:
The IS system has to know about the magnification to know how much shake to expect (and to set gain and damping) so I suspect with a teleconvert the IS might not be the best but it would still work to some extent.

And the Canon bins do have filter threads (on some like the 10x42). Same with the Kowa Genesis.

Worth some experimentation though I think you'd want a 2x to make it "worth the effort".

How much would a could of teleconverters cost?
 
Cost depends on the Quality. From $75.00 up to $250.00 each, depending on the maker and where you can get them. eBay is always an option for stuff like that...... I have bought $200.00 TC's from ebay for less than half that price. It all depends on how lucky you get.........

I would stick with ones from Canon, Sony, Olympus or Raynox. Most all the other brands are really junk. If your Canon has threads it will make it so much easier. You just need to know the thread size and go from there. You can also go look for Kenko. I have used Kenko before and their higher priced line is ok, not great, but ok.......


EDIT:

SONY VCL-DH1758 - 1.7X 58mm threads
Canon TC-DC58B - 1.5X 58mm threads
Olympus LENS TELE TCON-17F - 1.7X ???threads
Panasonic DMW-LT55 - 1.7X 55mm threads

I guess Raynox might be the only one with a high quality 2x

There's a Ton of 2x, 3x, 3.5x & 4x on eBay. All of them are Chinese build, some have glass lenses, some are Plastic, none are what I would consider optically good. If that's all there is, then at least try to buy from a vendor like B&H or Amazon, where you can send them back if you're dissapointed.

Doing a search for "58mm 2x lens" or "72mm 2x lens" or "2x raynox lens", gives plenty of hits on ebay, but you also get lots of hits for 2x TC's for the 35mm format cameras........

You can find the cheap 2X, 3X, 4X TC's for about $50 each on ebay............. Might be the best way to start with...........
 
Last edited:
wanderer1942 said:
Yes it should work with the Canon bins. Now whether it stops "shake" completely, I don't know. It certainly would be better than a non IS bin.

As far as the Teleconverters themselves, you need to do some research. There are MANY CHEAP ones and they are Terrible! There are only a handfull that are optically ok. One is made by Canon, One is made by Sony (both are 1.7X I believe and one is by Olympus. (B-300) but it's very hard to find...... There is the Raynox line and they make some expensive ones. I would have to do some searching because I don't remember all the names, but search "best 2x teleconverter lens" or "best teleconverter" might get you some hits.....

I have tried my 1.7X on my 8x40mm and on my wife's Leitz. It works, but remember, as in any TC, you loose close up. In other words it will be farther away for minimum focus and that will depend on the bins and the converter. Also it will depend on the bins on how well oyu focus. On my wife's Leitz I get good focus control from around 40 yards out to infinity. With my cheap bins I get focus from about 60 yards out to about 250 yards and then loose focus again. I also got good focus control on the Pentax 10x50 I had. So it will depend on the bins and the TC in combination. You might want to make sure you can return whatever you buy.

Another thing to remember is the more pieces of glass you put out there, the lower the optical quality. You will loose the "edges", so the sweet spot in the center will get somewhat smaller. The edges will get fuzzier. One way to prevent that would be to get a converter that is 72mm at the threaded end. That leaves the glass at about 65mm, so it's larger than the bins and you use more of the "center of the TC".
Click to expand...

Thanks for that.

I don't own the Canon 10x42 but maybe in the future it will replace my 10x30 IS. With my 10x30 and 18x50 combo I'm pretty much complete, but the idea of having an outstanding 10x bin with optional 20x mag is not unwelcome.
Maybe harder to hold steady, but resting your elbows on something will do wonders. Even my 18x50's are rock steady in this manner, and for sure way better than any other non-IS bin of the same magnification.

Thanks again, I'll do a search and see what comes up.

Best regards,

Ronald
 
KorHann - If you've got the 18x50's with 1.7x they would be 30.6x50's. That would be Awesome to see!

With the SONY VCL-DH1758 - 1.7X or the Olympus TCON-17F - 1.7X, the view should be amazing! Star gazing comes to mind. Even with the Canon TC-DC58B - 1.5X it would be 27X and still amazing. That would keep it Canon to Canon.

Do the 18x50's have threads on the objective end? Can you use a Tripod with those Canon bins?
 
wanderer1942 said:
KorHann - If you've got the 18x50's with 1.7x they would be 30.6x50's. That would be Awesome to see!

With the SONY VCL-DH1758 - 1.7X or the Olympus TCON-17F - 1.7X, the view should be amazing! Star gazing comes to mind. Even with the Canon TC-DC58B - 1.5X it would be 27X and still amazing. That would keep it Canon to Canon.

Do the 18x50's have threads on the objective end? Can you use a Tripod with those Canon bins?
Click to expand...

Hi wanderer1942,

Yes, the 18x50's have threads on the objective end; and yes, they can be tripod mounted as there's a 1/4" screw thread socket underneath the body, just below the battery compartment.
Size of objective threads is not mentioned in the manual. They are fairly shallow, and quite close to the objective lens.

Considering the modest exit pupil of 2.8 mm the 18x50's might be better with 1.5X TC than 1.7X. So the Canon TC-DC58B 1.5X seems best. 27x magnification seems OK, maybe 30.5x is pushing it a little. In daytime use the image will be OK for hard ID's.

Can you screw these things directly onto the objectives?
I know nothing of teleconverters as you might have already guessed.

Best regards,

Ronald
 
Either the TC will go straight on, or an adapter will be needed, depending on the thread sizes. As in 44mm to 58mm adapter, then the TC. Just depends on the thread sizes.

I will recommend an adapter to you, once I know the thread sizes. They should be in milimeters.

EDIT: the thread size is 58mm, so the TC's should screw right in.
 
Last edited:
Hey Wanderer and Ronald, it is so awesome that you guys figured this out, especially since you have a mechanical connection using the threads so it is repeatable and secure. I hope you try it and let us know how it works. This would make the IS bins twice as useful, possibly better than carrying a spotting scope. Might have to give them consideration for the future. Please let us know how it works out.
 
Sort of related (but heading in the other direction).

I saw a picture in a insect book I bought today of using a Nikon 5T close-up lens on the end of a set of 8x30 bins ... just balanced so both barrels look through it (it was a woman user so she might have a small IPD). This brings the close focus down to about 18" though I think a set of Papillos might be a better bet!

If anyone tries a TC on their Canon IS I'd be interested to hear the results too.
 
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