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It's threads like this ... (1 Viewer)

Kevin Purcell

Well-known member
Over at 24hourcampfire.com there is a thread "If the Nikon SE is so good, then why look for anything else?" on roof versus porros thread with so much disinfo and overgeneralization its laughable.

Their hearts are in the right place but from my seat it's a bit like watching jocks rap as the AV club watches on.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4736019/1

The upside is you can treat it as a drinking game.

For each bogus comment ("the Nikon Superior E 7x35" and "THe Zeiss FL with the abbe konig prisms is brighter and sharper in its sweet spot.") you take a sip.

Mixed in with the disinfo is some real info (posted by folks that post here no less!).

After you are sloshed you can post your comments on this thread ...

BTW, the correct answer to "If the Nikon SE is so good, then why look for anything else?" is waterproofing and price.
 
"BTW, the correct answer to "If the Nikon SE is so good, then why look for anything else?" is waterproofing and price."

...and shock resistance, and eye relief suitability, and close-up parallax issues.

To name a few more ;)
 
Well, one person says that the Yosemite 6 x 30's are "very close" and the Minox 6.5 x 32 IF is better. And he has more than 46,000 posts so he must know what he is talking about!

Bob
 
The SE is certainly the most beloved binocular on this forum too. But, thanks to the balanced discussions here, I could probably name at least 100 BAD things about it!

The most exotic of which is quite possibly, Henry's discovery that the prism cluster is too big to be installed/removed through the objective opening. The body, which is two parts glued together (gasp!), must be disassembled. SE owners, ach, how can you possibly sleep at night, knowing such an awful thing? It's just tewwibble.
zzzzzzzzzz
 
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"BTW, the correct answer to "If the Nikon SE is so good, then why look for anything else?" is waterproofing and price."

...and shock resistance, and eye relief suitability, and close-up parallax issues.

To name a few more ;)

I'd take issue with "shock resistance" as there is no empirical evidence that these break due to drops any more than any other roof.

As regards the prisms falling of their shelf from Henry Links photos they are both strapped and glued in place. Just like a rugged roof.

The others are of course valuable points (and not brought up in the Campfire thread either!) though hunters tend not to have parallax problems when out hunting unless they're really, really bad hunters.

"Say, John, is that a elk 10 feet to your left?"
 
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I've read it three times, and to be truthful I don't think it's much worse than some threads on BF, where there has been a colossal amount of unsubstantiated cowdoo.

That said, I do love the opinion that the open bridge of the EL renders it inadequate to support the barrels. I haven't seen a thread on ELs snapping apart.
 
That said, I do love the opinion that the open bridge of the EL renders it inadequate to support the barrels. I haven't seen a thread on ELs snapping apart.

That is actually a huge defect in the EL. In fact, I have started a disposal service for EL owners. Any owner of the Swaro EL may send them to me for proper disposal, at no charge to them. Unfortunately not many takers.
 
Over at 24hourcampfire.com there is a thread "If the Nikon SE is so good, then why look for anything else?" on roof versus porros thread with so much disinfo and overgeneralization its laughable.

Their hearts are in the right place but from my seat it's a bit like watching jocks rap as the AV club watches on.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4736019/1

The upside is you can treat it as a drinking game.

For each bogus comment ("the Nikon Superior E 7x35" and "THe Zeiss FL with the abbe konig prisms is brighter and sharper in its sweet spot.") you take a sip.

Mixed in with the disinfo is some real info (posted by folks that post here no less!).

After you are sloshed you can post your comments on this thread ...

BTW, the correct answer to "If the Nikon SE is so good, then why look for anything else?" is waterproofing and price.

Glad you got your "jolly's" by reading it. I've been guiding big game hunts for 15 years or so. Right or wrong, I've never seen an SE in the field. I guess they're all ignorant. I've seen top end stuff used and abused in that time. My guess would be that the SE wouldn't be near tough enough, but since they're not waterproof, shockproof, and are somewhat bulky IMO compared to the roofs, I'll never find out. After all, what can an SE show me that a SLCneu or a Zeiss FL can't?
 
Over at 24hourcampfire.com there is a thread "If the Nikon SE is so good, then why look for anything else?" on roof versus porros thread with so much disinfo and overgeneralization its laughable.

Their hearts are in the right place but from my seat it's a bit like watching jocks rap as the AV club watches on.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4736019/1

The upside is you can treat it as a drinking game.

For each bogus comment ("the Nikon Superior E 7x35" and "THe Zeiss FL with the abbe konig prisms is brighter and sharper in its sweet spot.") you take a sip.

Mixed in with the disinfo is some real info (posted by folks that post here no less!).

After you are sloshed you can post your comments on this thread ...

BTW, the correct answer to "If the Nikon SE is so good, then why look for anything else?" is waterproofing and price.

I am somewhat surprised by, but not too surprised at the nose in the air nature of this post, for example:

"Their hearts are in the right place but from my seat it's a bit like watching jocks rap as the AV club watches on."

"The upside is you can treat it as a drinking game."

If it is so beneath you, why even hang out there and post there with the "jocks"

B :)

*** I tried to find a smile face drinking a wine glass with its pinky stuck out here to cheer you with, but all I could find was this smile face jugging a dark beer to cheer you with; plus it is more my style. But what can I say- I am just an old jock who likes to hunt and also likes fine optics. I hope that I am worthy enough to post here.
 
Does the classic "one gun" hunter we often read about use and keep using the same one binocular or does he upgrade it unlike his favorite rifle?

I remember Shooting Editor Terry Wieland's controversial article in Gray's Sporting Journal several years ago (Feb/Mar 2006) where he said that all most hunters would ever need in a binocular was an 8 x 30/32 as long as it was a top quality one. He mentioned the variety that the 3 big European manufacturers have and also threw in Kahles. He valued quality, compactness, light weight and toughness in the long run and as I recall he liked the Leica 8 x 32 Ultravid best, but thought that the Swarovski EL's were a bit too long. He thought that 42mm binoculars were too big and awkward to lug around all day, whereas if you had to, you could tuck a 32mm under your arm if you needed to in a tough situation.

He also opined therein that poor optics ruined good hunting boots!
Bob
 
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Does the classic "one gun" hunter we often read about use and keep using the same one binocular or does he upgrade it unlike his favorite rifle?

Bob

A couple of friends of mine here shoot, and are as obsessive about upgrading their guns as I am about binos. They appreciate good binos when they see them, but they´re not that obsessive. They talk about "entry-level" guns, etc. Guns kind of scare me, but it´s nice to have friends with surplus venison and pheasant to hand....;)
 
why even hang out there and post there with the "jocks"

I rarely do. But every once in a while a check it out and realize that it's the same old stuff. All the stuff I've posted there has been helpful.

The three issues are bogus facts (hence the drinking game ... because they're easy to check); odd opinions (everyone has one even when they're wrong or just bizzare) and the aggression.

Look around for the seriously aggressive threads on campfire: they're easy to find (look for the long ones) and not something you see on BF. Even when we get bent out of shape we don't descend to name calling.

JG: no porros on the hunt? With all those ex-service guys who used IF 7x50 porros in the field for real? Hunting for things a bit smaller than the critters they hunting now. I'm surprised. They're good optically, tough, inexpensive and waterproof. I'm surprised more don't use them. But perhaps they I can see them not using an SE though even though they are tough enough: though could get similar results for less money.

On the 8x30 for hunting crowd: I've heard that ISAF special forces (but not found a real citation though) like the General Hi-T 8x30 IF porro. Originally designed as a military bin for the Chinese armed forces. It's lighter than a 7x50 so easier to carry in the field. And when the sun goes down you switch to imiage intensifiers or thermal IR imagers to do the job that 7x50s used to do in the "old days".

I'm a big believer in the 8x30ish (or 10x40ish) will work for 95% of birders needs too though I do like my 7x42 before and around dawn and at dusk.
 
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I rarely do. But every once in a while a check it out and realize that it's the same old stuff. All the stuff I've posted there has been helpful.

Nice of you to come down from your exalted place on high and enlighten the lost souls

The three issues are bogus facts (hence the drinking game ... because they're easy to check); odd opinions (everyone has one even when they're wrong or just bizzare) and the aggression.

OH, now time to discipline and chastise the lost heathens again. And yes I know all about opinions and you know what they say about those.

Look around for the seriously aggressive threads on campfire: they're easy to find (look for the long ones) and not something you see on BF. Even when we get bent out of shape we don't descend to name calling.

I guess that supposedly we do not do that here, except when someone calls out a whole group of people on another forum and basically the gist of their original post is condescending towards them and basically mocking them. e.g.: "laughable"
 
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Hey Kevin.....I know it's hard for you to take, but no porros on hunts....EVER. The SE's aren't tough enough, and won't show you anything a Meopta, Cabelas Euro, Zen ED2, Bushnell Elite, or Leupold GR HD won't show you equally as well. Then there's that clueless Nikon customer service when they do go tits up.........

The only porros I'd even consider would be a Steiner, but they weigh 10 lbs or so. Glad to see you have no low self esteem issues.
 
I rarely do. But every once in a while a check it out and realize that it's the same old stuff. All the stuff I've posted there has been helpful.

The three issues are bogus facts (hence the drinking game ... because they're easy to check); odd opinions (everyone has one even when they're wrong or just bizzare) and the aggression.

Look around for the seriously aggressive threads on campfire: they're easy to find (look for the long ones) and not something you see on BF. Even when we get bent out of shape we don't descend to name calling.

JG: no porros on the hunt? With all those ex-service guys who used IF 7x50 porros in the field for real? Hunting for things a bit smaller than the critters they hunting now. I'm surprised. They're good optically, tough, inexpensive and waterproof. I'm surprised more don't use them. But perhaps they I can see them not using an SE though even though they are tough enough: though could get similar results for less money.

On the 8x30 for hunting crowd: I've heard that ISAF special forces (but not found a real citation though) like the General Hi-T 8x30 IF porro. Originally designed as a military bin for the Chinese armed forces. It's lighter than a 7x50 so easier to carry in the field. And when the sun goes down you switch to imiage intensifiers or thermal IR imagers to do the job that 7x50s used to do in the "old days".

I'm a big believer in the 8x30ish (or 10x40ish) will work for 95% of birders needs too though I do like my 7x42 before and around dawn and at dusk.

Kevin,
Many, many millions of 6 x 30 IF binoculars were made for the foot soldiers on both sides.

The Swiss used a 6 x 24 for their army. You can still get one from Deutche Optik. And years ago in the 70's and early 80's the Orvis Co. sold a very good little 8 x 24 reverse porro that was very popular with hunting guides in Africa. It wasn't water proof either.

7 x 50s seem to have been used more often by Ranking Officers and were, of course, common on warships. It is entertaining to watch old movies on the Turner Channels and try to guess what kind of binoculars you may see in them.

I doubt if most binoculars in hunting get used harder than the ones used by ornithologists in field work. I've lost my link about that old pro Ornithologist who used those non-water proof 10 x 50's for at least 30 years under all kinds of field conditions. I can't remember his name either. Maybe you have the link? If you do, why not post it on 24 hour campfire and let them look at the pictures of that particular Porro Prism!:t:

Bob
 
Chandler Robbins' 10x50 Bushnell's

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=1599746

Perhaps the most memorable bins I've seen.

Bar none! Porro or roof.

Not used for hunting though.

Chandler must have been a pretty clumsy fellow.......that or he used these on Iwo Jima.

I had a pair of Bushnell Sportsview bins. that I treated like crap for 20 years...all they ended up with was scratched paint and horrible collimation.
 
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