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ABA Blog on Women Birders and "The Field Glass ceiling" (1 Viewer)

Oddly enough, as someone who is involved in many "fringe" activities (fandom, gaming, birding), some of the negative attitudes towards the article are basically the same responses I see when any discussion of sexism comes up in those areas as well.

I don't think anyone is saying that birding has a larger amount of sexism than other parts of society, just that it is there. I have seen firsthand female birders automatically dismissed by people for soley having another gender, and automatically assumed to be robin strokers, newbies, or wives of birders. I have also seen, amongst younger birders, female birders treated less as people but as some prize to be won. If you are a guy, you don't regularly have to deal with it, or it just isn't something you have to think about. women birders do.
 
Mysticete said:
If you are a guy, you don't regularly have to deal with it, or it just isn't something you have to think about. women birders do.
Click to expand...

But you also get some older men (at least in the UK, and it is always men) who don't treat younger birders, male or female, well either. The assumed position is that the younger birder doesn't know much, therefore they can be patronised or ignored.
 
Mysticete said:
Oddly enough, as someone who is involved in many "fringe" activities (fandom, gaming, birding), some of the negative attitudes towards the article are basically the same responses I see when any discussion of sexism comes up in those areas as well.

I don't think anyone is saying that birding has a larger amount of sexism than other parts of society, just that it is there. I have seen firsthand female birders automatically dismissed by people for soley having another gender, and automatically assumed to be robin strokers, newbies, or wives of birders. I have also seen, amongst younger birders, female birders treated less as people but as some prize to be won. If you are a guy, you don't regularly have to deal with it, or it just isn't something you have to think about. women birders do.
Click to expand...

nice post. BTW, what is a "robin stroker" ? I've never heard this term before.
 
Annabeth2 said:
BTW, what is a "robin stroker" ? I've never heard this term before.
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Mark Cocker 2001 (Birders: Tales of a Tribe)...
The word for the American Indian tribe, the Apache, was derived from a Zuni expression meaning 'the enemy'. Dude and robin-stroker, are in the same class of name. They're clearly pejorative terms and no one in their right mind would call themselves either. A robin-stroker is the easier to define. They are the most lukewarm in their enthusiasm. Like my parents, they heap food on the bird table. They watch from the living-room window. They join the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds and, instead of a leading-edge conservation outfit, they often think they're supporting an organisation devoted to injured creatures. Despite the implied slur of sentimentality, robin-strokers are the vast bulk of decent folk without whom bird conservation would have no real teeth. We should all learn to love and stroke them fondly.
Click to expand...
 
As a geographical outsider this is a little funny. I come from Denmark, a country where at most 30% of birdwatchers were women at the time I was there. I have always thought that the birding scene in the US was a lot more even, but I guess I was wrong. I have never been on a commercial bird tour, but I have stayed in places that also harbored some, and on 3-4 occasions, those tours were having a woman as a co-leader (and on a couple of occasions, I can vouch for the birding acuity of that person). I guess that is another reason I really did not think the problem is as large as it here is made out to be.

For the record, yes, I am a male, but I think I am able to respect a woman birder (or another male birder) as well as anyone ;)

Niels
 
fugl said:
Young men in sexual pursuit of young women, now there's a shock!
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Actually, from observations of male birders/listers in Britain, interests in birds and women often seem to be mutually exclusive traits. ;)

PS. I'd better rephrase that before it gets interpreted as homophobic...

Actually, from observations of male birders/listers in Britain, interests in birds and women (or men!) often seem to be mutually exclusive traits. ;)
 
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fugl said:
Are male birders worse in this respect in your experience than other men? The article's implication that they are is what I was principally reacting to. The reason IMO that women are underrepresented in the leadership of hardcore birding organizations is simply that there are relatively few women hardcore birders.
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Oh most certainly yes..... and I come from a background of post doctorial research in Physics... where you you could go days without seeing another woman.
 
Gomphus said:
After 30years plus of birding I could relate many occasions when things have happened, however I often have had the satisfaction of seeing them proved wrong;)


Steph'
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I bet we could clock up a fair few corking examples between us. I mostly find it funny! happens less to me now on account of near sedentary habits, but it does still happen.
 
Originally Posted by Mysticete
I have also seen, amongst younger birders, female birders treated less as people but as some prize to be won.


fugl said:
Young men in sexual pursuit of young women, now there's a shock!

;)
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that Mysticete is saying that there's a problem here when he states 'female birders treated less as people' by some of the young men. Your 'boys will be boys' response is a little revealing. The notion that a young man could persue a young woman and still treat her as a full person, not a prize...there's a shock. I don't think that actually occurs to some men...and that's what Mysticete is pointing out. It's more 'cold blooded' than 'red-blooded' behavior.
 
@Fugl - Spot on - just like there's no racism in America now we have an African American president (is there an eye roll emoticon on here?). Don't you think the fact that most all of the upper level female birders thinks it exists as an issue outweighs your believing it's a joke. I guess if you come from Nevada though you probably don't get the opportunity to know much about other birders, let alone the upper end of the birding scene though so you can be forgiven for your ignorance ;)
 
streatham said:
@Fugl - Spot on - just like there's no racism in America now we have an African American president (is there an eye roll emoticon on here?). Don't you think the fact that most all of the upper level female birders thinks it exists as an issue outweighs your believing it's a joke. I guess if you come from Nevada though you probably don't get the opportunity to know much about other birders, let alone the upper end of the birding scene though so you can be forgiven for your ignorance ;)
Click to expand...

I just did a quick survey of the contributors to this thread: 14 men, 3 women. Rather a small sample of female opinion, wouldn't you think? But then you're from Connecticut, so I wouldn't expect you to know how to count. (You see, you're not the only one who can make dumb intolerant remarks about other people's states.).

And I see your smiley and raise you one: ;) ;)
 
Ummm I'm not from CT - but anyway I'm guessing you don't like to let facts to get in the way of your digs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_educational_attainment I would suggest you read the actual post (which is written by a woman and contains the thoughts of women birders) or follow the comment thread on the ABA blog or on their facebook page (which does the same). As they say opinions are like.... and you are more than welcome to be one.
 
To hell with this. Go on, Jane and Steph, spill the beans on sexist attitudes in birding, in life in general if you want. It won't make a jot of difference to those Neanderthals that think it's a storm in a tea cup but, if it doesn't make the rest of us think, then at least we can p*ss ourselves laughing at the attitudes of the more lumpen members of society. :-O

Chris
 
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