New binoculars from leica (3 Viewers)

Holger Merlitz · Jul 27, 2016

Vespobuteo said:
Ok, the specs of the HD-B models point in that direction,
their FOV seems rather "modest" (but slightly better than the predecessor) and not really wide-angle. The 8x42 have a 130m FOV and the 10x42 114m. The 8x56 have a 118 m FOV. The only test I have seen on HD-B (8x42) is kikkertspesialisten and they gave them better on edge sharpness than SLC 56mm and Zeiss HT 54mm, and they were ranked very high on resolution, contrast (12) and high (11) on brightness. So the optics seem to be very good.

So most likely the Perger-prisms would not be the first-hand choice in a super-wide binocular.

The Perger Porro may be used in wide angle instruments, no problem. It is true that, when compared to a Porro I or Porro II of identical entrance width, the Perger prism has a bottleneck at the contact surface of both prism elements. Yet, that doesn't necessarily imply vignetting, because the light cone is often narrower at this point than at the prism entrance. If in fact an unwanted amount of vignetting occurs, then there is no harm with the selection of a somewhat larger prism: A Perger prism with 10% increased entrance width leads to a binocular which is still smaller than a traditional Porro binocular with original (slightly smaller) prism size. So no big deal.

Cheers,
Holger

Hermann · Jul 27, 2016

binomania said:
Hi from Italy.
The Perger Porro prism system does not allow to build ultra-wide-angle binoculars, also does not provide a similar brightness like the best roof prism.

A Perger prism will have better transmission values than a high-quality roof prism. The only roof prism that may be close is the AK prism.

Hermann

A2GG · Jul 27, 2016

I thought I read quite a while back here on the forum that Leica tried to develop
a Perger (non-range finder) , but dropped the project because they couldn't keep the
weight down. So, does anyone think they have tried again? It would be awesome to see
Leica really do this and offer a bin for nature observation so innovative, but I'm skeptical
about all this and figure it's just standard ol' roof. Would be exciting and a breath of fresh air if it is something
new and different.

JabaliHunter · Jul 27, 2016

Hermann said:
A Perger prism will have better transmission values than a high-quality roof prism. The only roof prism that may be close is the AK prism.

Hermann

At least in theory, however rangefinder tests suggest higher transmission figures for the EL (SP) than the Geovid (Perger)

Vespobuteo · Jul 27, 2016

JabaliHunter said:
At least in theory, however rangefinder tests suggest higher transmission figures for the EL (SP) than the Geovid (Perger)

Interesting, I found this here on BF,
downloadable review:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=279895

Daylight transmission, rounded off:
Swaro EL 8x42 Range - 91% (R and L) (as stated in Swaro specs)
Leica HD-B 8x42 - 86% (R)-88% (L)

I think Leica states 90% actually (at least in the 8x56 model).

ronh · Jul 28, 2016

There is nothing in the photo linked by Pier that suggests anything to me but a straight barreled (probably SP prism) 42mm. I wanna believe, but...

I like Jerry's sneak peak much better, with the handy stabilization on/off buttons!

Ron

Troubador · Jul 28, 2016

JabaliHunter said:
At least in theory, however rangefinder tests suggest higher transmission figures for the EL (SP) than the Geovid (Perger)

JH
Yes but in your suggestion you are 'testing' the coatings as well as the prisms.

Lee

Hermann · Jul 28, 2016

JabaliHunter said:
At least in theory, however rangefinder tests suggest higher transmission figures for the EL (SP) than the Geovid (Perger)

Rangefinder tests are, due to the peculiarities of these models, of no importance whatsoever when it comes to the transmission of "normal" binoculars.

Hermann

GLOBETROTTER · Jul 28, 2016

A new line of binoculars now ?

So open bridge and wide angle of view is expected to compete with SF and SV and maybe flat field ?

Otherwise is gonna be another version of ultravid with different body and maybe Perger prism with means increase in light transmission and nothing else.

Leica is a very conservative manufacturer i don't expect any huge change...........but i hope to be wrong.

A2GG · Jul 28, 2016

GLOBETROTTER said:
A new line of binoculars now ?

So open bridge and wide angle of view is expected to compete with SF and SV and maybe flat field ?

Otherwise is gonna be another version of ultravid with different body and maybe Perger prism with means increase in light transmission and nothing else.

Leica is a very conservative manufacturer i don't expect any huge change...........but i hope to be wrong.

I don't think Perger porro prism would be a conservative move.
It would be a departure from the standard and they could be
taking a chance there.
Also, there should be more 3D effect I would think(?).

But I think it's gonna be a standard roof anyway.

GLOBETROTTER · Jul 28, 2016

Gilmore Girl said:
I don't think Perger porro prism would be a conservative move.
It would be a departure from the standard and they could be
taking a chance there.
Also, there should be more 3D effect I would think(?).

But I think it's gonna be a standard roof anyway.

I mean regarding FOV and flat view eyepiece design.

They already have geovid HD binoculars with Perger prisms so probably as it looks in the picture is the same binocular chasis but to increase the FOV they have to increase the ocular design with more lenses and biggest size.

I hope the will come with a really true new optical design to compete head to head with the SF.

Canip · Jul 28, 2016

Perger = 3D ??

Gilmore Girl said:
I don't think Perger porro prism would be a conservative move.
.....
Also, there should be more 3D effect I would think(?).
.....
--------------------------------------------------------------

Why should there be more 3D effect? The axis offset with the Perger prism is minimal, compared to roof prism instruments. That was the design trick: creating a Porro with all the advantages from an optical design point of view - which normally means large axis offset - for a binocular body that looks like a roof prism bino (since we - "the market" - seem unfortunately to prefer that shape).

A2GG · Jul 28, 2016

Canip said:
Gilmore Girl said:

I don't think Perger porro prism would be a conservative move.
.....
Also, there should be more 3D effect I would think(?).
.....
--------------------------------------------------------------

Why should there be more 3D effect? The axis offset with the Perger prism is minimal, compared to roof prism instruments. That was the design trick: creating a Porro with all the advantages from an optical design point of view - which normally means large axis offset - for a binocular body that looks like a roof prism bino (since we - "the market" - seem unfortunately to prefer that shape).

Click to expand...

I wasn't making a definitive statement thus the question mark at the end.
I'm not sure exactly what is going on inside a Perger Prism bin, as I don't know much about it besides the notion of attempting to merge characteristics of both porro and roof. Perhaps there may be some degree of enhanced 3D effect albeit small (?), but I'm not quite sure.

Maybe an expert like like Henry could touch on all the benefits of the Perger prism.

Mark9473 · Jul 28, 2016

Gilmore Girl said:
Canip said:

I'm not sure exactly what is going on inside a Perger Prism bin, as I don't know much about it besides the notion of attempting to merge characteristics of both porro and roof. Perhaps there may be some degree of enhanced 3D effect albeit small (?), but I'm not quite sure.

Click to expand...

The prisms have nothing to do directly with generating a 3D effect. The 3D effect comes purely from having objective lenses that are spaced farther apart than your own eyes. Thus, a binocular with AK prisms has this a little bit, and a conventional porro prism binocular a lot. I would expect a Perger prism binocular to just slightly exceed AK; nothing like a conventional porro.

A2GG · Jul 28, 2016

Mark9473 said:
Gilmore Girl said:

The prisms have nothing to do directly with generating a 3D effect. The 3D effect comes purely from having objective lenses that are spaced farther apart than your own eyes. Thus, a binocular with AK prisms has this a little bit, and a conventional porro prism binocular a lot. I would expect a Perger prism binocular to just slightly exceed AK; nothing like a conventional porro.

Click to expand...

Hi Mark,

Yes I already am aware that the wider spacing of the objectives in porros creates the 3D effect or "stereopsis" as I've heard some use that term.
However, I've never had a bin with AK prisms , but read here on the forum that they give a slight 3D effect compared to SP prisms and some people like AK prisms for this small benefit.
If PPP slightly exceeds AK, as you stated, couldn't we see slightly more 3D effect esp compared to SP bins?

Just to be clear , I'm not debating here...only wondering.

A2GG · Jul 28, 2016

Looks like the quoting feature is all wonky again, quoting the wrong
people.

Torview · Jul 28, 2016

Maybe Leica were working on a Birding Perger, felt the weight would make them less attractive to a market generally less interested in the prism type than us members on here. Finding themselves with an open bridge body design, placed the glass and prisms from the UVHD+ inside plus a FF element and found the longer focal length all but eliminated CA, could be just what the market ordered.

I`m still hoping for a PPP, thanks GG i like that abbreviation.

A2GG · Jul 28, 2016

Torview said:
Maybe Leica were working on a Birding Perger, felt the weight would make them less attractive to a market generally less interested in the prism type than us members on here. Finding themselves with an open bridge body design, placed the glass and prisms from the UVHD+ inside plus a FF element and found the longer focal length all but eliminated CA, could be just what the market ordered.

I`m still hoping for a PPP, thanks GG i like that abbreviation.

Thanks...that was a deliberate choice to go with 3 P's for obvious reason

Ultimately I welcome a lighter bin, nice ergonomics and still relatively compact over any improvements in image... less CA ,etc is still welcome
of course if it can all be done. But really I think progress now should focus on lighter weight yet still strong frame/body (different materials) and also better ER for us eyeglass wearers.

Canip · Jul 28, 2016

Gilmore Girl said:
Mark9473 said:

....
If PPP slightly exceeds AK, as you stated, couldn't we see slightly more 3D effect esp compared to SP bins?
....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have unfortunately never experienced a 3D effect in my AK binoculars (I do happen to own several of those) that was any stronger than in a Schmidt-Pechan bino.
The same is true for the Perger bino ( I have the Leica Geovid 8x42 HD-R Type 402). The difference to a roof prism bino is for my eyes not noticeable.

But I wonder from a technical/ optical point of view: How could the prism design itself create a 3D effect if the lateral distance of the objectives remains the same, or virtually the same?

Click to expand...

A2GG · Jul 28, 2016

Canip said:
Gilmore Girl said:

Mark9473 said:

....
If PPP slightly exceeds AK, as you stated, couldn't we see slightly more 3D effect esp compared to SP bins?
....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have unfortunately never experienced a 3D effect in my AK binoculars (I do happen to own several of those) that was any stronger than in a Schmidt-Pechan bino.
The same is true for the Perger bino ( I have the Leica Geovid 8x42 HD-R Type 402). The difference to a roof prism bino is for my eyes not noticeable.

But I wonder from a technical/ optical point of view: How could the prism design itself create a 3D effect if the lateral distance of the objectives remains the same, or virtually the same?

Click to expand...

I just did a little digging and found this thread...see Henry's post#3 where he mentions the slightly wider objective spacing in relation to IPD spacing in Ak bins.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=311840

Click to expand...

New binoculars from leica (3 Viewers)

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