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Does Anyone Count Dead Birds As "Lifers"? (1 Viewer)

At the other end of the scale; I can't really see how this could happen, but, what would the ethics be of ticking an Egg?

It's alive, and assume you are confident of the species, what does the panel think?

(By the way, do mothers/butterfliers count Caterpillars?, if not why not?)

True Lepidopterists do perhaps? - there's whole books on larvae finding/collecting and many invert species/leafminers etc are most easily id'ed on the larval foodplant ...

Eggs - hmmm. I presume that just ticking the egg would be a) extreme laziness (ie can't wait around for the adult) b) an abandoned egg is the same as a dead egg ie no longer viable, whether or not it is still actually 'alive' at the time...

?
 
(By the way, do mothers/butterfliers count Caterpillars?, if not why not?)

For personal list I do count caterpillars on my list (with asterisk though so I remember which species I have to 'upgrade' with adult specimen observations) - of course if the ID can be made with 100% certainty. Not all species can be identified in earlier stages. Interesting that in contrast in my country the butterfly/moth species will be added to official list only when the adult is collected (very rarely photographs can do too) - even if the caterpillar/leaf mine/etc is 100% sure to belong to new species. Not sure how it's in UK?

As for birds - of course I'll not count a dead bird on my list, but if the bird is some sort of rarity and for sure had perished locally (e.g. not washed ashore already in late stage of decay - so who knows when and where it had died) than it will be counted in the total number of observations for that species in Latvia.
 
Probably, Gray-cheeked Thrushes were about the only game in town in October 1986!

I saw the cat incident, which was on the Garrison in a cottage back garden. When the cat leapt out and grabbed the bird (incidentally Barry Wright did a fair and sadly amusing impression of the bird flapping limply in the cat's mouth) the crowd growled and went over the wall: but the moggy made off into the bushes with it.

I think the drowning incident was below Green Farm but I might be wrong. I think Tringbirder may have seen that one.

John

Thanks again - :-O (I wonder if anyone tried to see the cat later on)
 
Eggs - hmmm. I presume that just ticking the egg would be a) extreme laziness (ie can't wait around for the adult) b) an abandoned egg is the same as a dead egg ie no longer viable, whether or not it is still actually 'alive' at the time...
But how about the egg of a scrubfowl, which may be left alone for quite a while (even if the parents tend to hang around)? Still sounds like a plan for some Papuan species.
I wouldn't count an egg, but it is less ridiculous than counting dead birds!
 
Or for the egg to hatch. . .. ;)

That's extreme perserverance, and to be lauded. :t:

As would be in the case below -

But how about the egg of a scrubfowl, which may be left alone for quite a while (even if the parents tend to hang around)? Still sounds like a plan for some Papuan species.
I wouldn't count an egg, but it is less ridiculous than counting dead birds!

Crossed my mind, that one too.

Thinking about it, on eg WeBS counts, and presumably other scientific surveys, immature birds pre-fledging sized aren't counted, as they are deemed not part of the adult population yet (and many won't make it)?

Guess this needs further work on (from the panel) but an exciting bird like a Mallard with 12 day-old ducklings doesn't get recorded as 13 Mallard ...
 
Many thanks to all that have replied.

I did add it to my checklist of birds that I had with me on the day I saw it, but will certainly specify that it was dead!
 
By the way, do mothers/butterfliers count Caterpillars?, if not why not?

I do. Generally, I will try and breed the adult if it is permitted. Some caterpillars are more distinctive than adults for instance you can separate Grey and Dark Daggers as caterpillars but not adults (save for dissection) and you can only be really confident separating Narrow-bordered and Five-spot Burnets as caterpillars. I've also helped out on larval surveys on species that I wanted to see.

Further, some species are also easier to find as larvae. Far easier to see all the British Pugs that way.

There are further complexities. If you collect a Sallow Clearwing gall, would you open it up to see the caterpillar or breed it through and tick the adult.

When I have the time to think about building a moth list, a proper attention to larvae and micros will be on my agenda.

Interesting that in contrast in my country the butterfly/moth species will be added to official list only when the adult is collected (very rarely photographs can do too) - even if the caterpillar/leaf mine/etc is 100% sure to belong to new species. Not sure how it's in UK?

Larvae/occupied leafmines would be added (I believe).

Surely ticking a dead bird makes the list more relevant than the sighting?

I wonder if anyone has inadvertently ticked a dead bird. The St Agnes Common Nighthawk in 1998 allegedly had admirers both before and after it closed its eyes and stopped breathing......... :eek!:

All the best
 
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I wonder if anyone has inadvertently ticked a dead bird. ......... :eek!:

I've seen a whole crowd of people tick a dead Ptarmigan. It was a victim of flying into the Cairngorm ski tow cables and looked as though it was just sat down on the ground as seen from the restaurant viewing platform about a hundred metres away. After most of them went away, my group was suspicious of its lack of movement and went outside the restaurant compound to look close up - it wasn't easy to see it was dead until you got up to it (pic below).

20 April 2015, if anyone reading this finds they need to reconsider their Ptarmigan tick 3:)
 

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What are the reasons for not counting dead birds? Was there a problem with people Fed-Exxing fresh corpses of exotics into the country or something?
 
- it wasn't easy to see it was dead until you got up to it (pic below).
3:)

I think the fact that it appeared to have made use of a rock for a pillow should have been a fairly big clue!

There are stories about a Nighthawk on the Scillies too, I think one was deceased. Another of the subjects which had telescopes trained on it for hours, with various claims of it having moved, was in fact not even a bird but a lump of cow shit as I heard it.


A
 
There are stories about a Nighthawk on the Scillies too, I think one was deceased. Another of the subjects which had telescopes trained on it for hours, with various claims of it having moved, was in fact not even a bird but a lump of cow shit as I heard it.


A

This has been repeated frequently and erroneously. It was a hoax from start to finish, perpetrated by a bunch of guys staying at Rocky Hill chalets against one of their number who had forgotten to do his weekend shopping (pre-Sunday opening on Scilly). They let him get most of the way to town at the end of the day then claimed the Nighthawk: he came barrelling back, they subsequently called Birdbrain again to say it was a cow-pat and consequently he missed both the (non-existent) bird and closing time at the shops.

That particular Nighthawk never existed. No doubt it was a good practical joke against their mate but it caused a good deal of heartache (not to mention heartburn!) in other birders on the island at the time.

John
 
I tick dead birds when they are an extinct species. No live ones remain, so it is as good as it gets. Great Auk, Hawaiian O'o', Glaucous Macaw and so on. But I don't put them on a list, and don't write them down, so I quickly forget them. I only remember that I saw a specimen of at least one bird which is the only one in existence.
 
I personally wouldn't tick it, has to be alive I remember once my Mum came across a dead Puffin on a beach she said that's my first Puffin I said sorry it needs to be alive to count.
 
I work on a North Sea oil platform, and report to the recorder at the North Sea Bird Club. I do record dead birds, and dead birds do feature in the annual reports. This, I believe, is as evidence of migration, so the information is useful.

That said, last year, I found a dead Little Bunting. I have never seen a live Little Bunting, so although it is counted as a platform record, I would not be comfortable in calling it a lifer. For me the search for a Little Bunting lifer goes on.
 
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