how to upgrade my videoscoping "tools"? (1 Viewer)

Hi,

actually I've got Kowa 883 with TSN-DA10 and Canon 570is. I want to improve my videoscoping quality (full hd 1920x1080 @ min 25fps). Dslr camera with video capabilities or camcorder or advanced compact camera, this is the question! What do you think is the best solution for bird in the range of 10-20 meters from me?

DSLR pro: good out of focus; performance in low light; wide lens for lanscapes; full manual video.
DSLR con: no (or slow) autofocus; max bitrate of c. 20 mbps; small factor zoom with TSN-PZ or TSN PA6; bad audio without ext microphone; often LCD no tilt etc.

CAM pro: fast AF with 3D tracking (Pana TM-700); LCD tilt and swivel; big factor zoom; higher bitrate; full manual video; good audio without ext microphone.
CAM con: I need TSN-VA3 (no cheap tool!); no wide lens for filming landscapes; bad performance in low light; bad out of focus.

Compact pro: light weight; some with high frame rate (Casio), autofocus (?); LCD tilt and swivel
Compact con: no manual control over aperture or shutter or iso; bad out of focus; bad video in low light condition; bad max bitrate.

Is it correct? Solution?

Bye,

MW

Regarding the best choice I have no opinion, as you pointed out in your post all have pros and cons. As far as the use of TSN-VA3 eyepiece/adapter for the Kowa scope, to use with a camcorder or a long reach digital camera, I think that, except for the high price, it is a good solution. Here in the USA the TSN-VA3 costs $875 and the TSN-VA2B costs $575 ! A cheaper alternative might be to look for an used TSN-VA1 or TSN-VA2 (both have been discontinued by Kowa) and get Kowa's TSN-VA2-CR Conversion Ring which allows the use of these eyepieces in the TSN-883.

Dalcio

Hi,

I think you are confused about the autofocusing issue of camcorders. Most of today's camcorder's (including my TM700) autofocus sensors are hidden outside of the lens glass. So forget about autofocus tracking for closer objects. The camcorder will almost always misfocus for closer subjects. But generally you don't feel this for distant objects. The exit pupil of the Kowa 883 will be 6.28mm (theoretically) when you attach TSN-VA3. On the other hand this problem will occur on every attached lens that has the exit pupil smaller than c. 50 mm. For example I tested two teleconverters (Nikon TC-E17ED and 16X9 Inc.'s 1.5X) and the latter doesn't show any autofocus error since the rear glass is c. 50 mm. But the misfocusing was there when the nikon was attached.

Murat Ozcelik

Kowa VA2?

Hi,

if you are interested in a used Kowa VA2, I could be your man. It is in perfect conditions, currently send away for attendance. Just want to mention, because dacol brought the idea up before.


All the best,

Fabian

Muratfaik said:

Most of today's camcorder's (including my TM700) autofocus sensors are hidden outside of the lens glass

Click to expand...

Are You sure? I take a look at the tm700's manual and, outside of the lens glass, there is only the autofocus lamp...
But I'm a newbie...

MW

Marsh Warbler said:

Are You sure? I take a look at the tm700's manual and, outside of the lens glass, there is only the autofocus lamp...
But I'm a newbie...

MW

Click to expand...

Hi,

I dont want to say that I am %100 sure. But I am saying what I saw. Although Panasonic does not say much explanations about this issue, in one of canon's old camcorder broshures, you can find how autofocus works in their camcorders (I think for HFS10). And both brand recommends comperatively bigger teleconverters for their flagship models. I think you should also consider that the camcorder's autofocusing technology (i.e. contrast detection, etc.) for proper focusig when you attach any add on lens. I can simply recommend to buy a big glass, as big as you can (but of course with enough magnification.. Good luck!).

Regards.

Murat Ozcelik

I plug my SonySR5E on to my scope and it autofocus's at all distances. It also has a function for spot focus, very useful for close up work with bees etc.

I would expect all camcorders to act the same, all the ones I have owned over the last 25 years have focussed from inside the lens.
I also attach a Nikon E17 ED 1.7 to my Sony with no loss of any function (except flash for stills)

Den

poledark said:

I plug my SonySR5E on to my scope and it autofocus's at all distances. It also has a function for spot focus, very useful for close up work with bees etc.

I would expect all camcorders to act the same, all the ones I have owned over the last 25 years have focussed from inside the lens.
I also attach a Nikon E17 ED 1.7 to my Sony with no loss of any function (except flash for stills)

Den

Click to expand...

Hi,

I looked at the SonySR5E's technical specs and found this picture (attached). And I noticed that the filter size is 37mm. So I assume the glass part is 18-20 mm. When you attach a Nikon TC-E17ED (I suppose you'd mention this) on this camcorder it is normal that you did not notice any focus error. Because the rear glass of the Nikon 1.7X camcorder is c. 40mm and it covers whole portion of lens and sensor. But I wonder if what was your scope and your scope's eyepiece? I suppose (not sure), if the sensor stays on the out of the glass part of teleconverter, and the sensor sees the object, camcorder focuses approximate distance (not precisely). But if it is blocked by any metal part of sccope or eyepiece, camcorder shows slight focus error. If you can kindly say what scope and eyepiece did you use for testing, I can commend more cosistently.

Best Regards.

Murat Ozcelik

Kenco 80mm scope with a Kenco 15x eyepiece. I simply attach the camcorder via a home machined tube which screws on to the Sony, and plugs on the eyepiece.

I do a lot of videoing with this setup, and I simply focus the scope, and the camera follows with autofocus.

I can also use "spot focus" whichI tend to do with real close work (down to 4mtrs or so) with insects on flowers for example.

It also worked with the Kenco 50x lens and the 20/60x zoom lens....just got a lot of vignetting with those eyepieces.

More edit I use the Nikon ED1.7 lens on the Sony almost daily, it spends most of its life attached

I had a look at your pic of the SR5 and the button you point to switches off the flash when any lens is attached. It does not affect the fosusing at all.

The eyepiece lens is approx 15mm diameter give or take a few "thou". I have machined off as much metal as I dared to get the eyepiece closer to the Sonys lense. Most of the "vignetting" I get is due to the wide angle view on the camera.

Den

Hi Den,

Sorry for the late reply (I was on a business trip). I looked at the kenko scopes and eyepieces. There are several versions. But as far as I'd saw all of the eyepieces will block your external sensor. This may cause some minimal focus errors especially in lens's closest position. You may not notice this due to the several factors: For example the front glass of camcorder's lens is positioned in different recessed level in different camcorders. But if I assume correctly, in your camcorder the front glass closer to the eyepiece's glass than in my camcorder. This c. 4-5 mm distance will directly effects this focus error and another factor is your camcorder's minimum focusing distance. It may be closer than mine (Pana TM700). In addition to that camcorder's front glass diameter will effect this focus error (your is 18 mm, mine is 30 mm. Remember that in bigger glass DOF is narrower). Also the teleconverter's magnification factor.

On the other hand you'd written "I had a look at your pic of the SR5 and the button you point to switches off the flash when any lens is attached. It does not affect the fosusing at all." The point that I pointed is not related with flash. It is an external sensor! In most cases the flash will be covered with an add on lens but it is not related with focusing. I attached a diagram that shows how canon's camcorder focus precisely. But please note that in this flagship camcorder of Canon, the sensor is located at a more distant point than at your camcorder. And the lens glass is bigger than your SR5. So at least this two parameter will show noticeable focus error than your set up.

For Nikon TC-E 17ED teleconverter, as I wrote, this is a huge teleconverter and the rear glass and exit pupil covers your camcorder's lens and external sensor. So it is normal that there won't be any focus error. But please try this teleconverter to attach to a bigger lensed camcorder. You will immediately notice the focus error in closer distances, if the camcorder shares same focusing technology.

As I understand, you are satisfied with your set up. I am also satisfied with mine. But I think we should recommend more carefully for newcomers. Because if someone could buy a big lensed palmcorder according to your commend, and notice a focus error when he/she attaches a scope or a teleconverter, this will be a wrong investment for him/her.

Best regards.

Sorry to have to say this Muratfaik, but my Sony does NOT have an external sensor! It has a button which when depressed by attaching an extra lens swithes off the flash. The other "lens" is actually the flash light. I have owned 5 different Sony camcorders and 1 JVC and none of them had external sensors either. They all worked perfectly with any lens I ever attached, mostly wide angle or 1.7 or 2X converters.

Den

excuse me... where can i buy Kowa TSN-VA3 in Europe (good price < €700)?
thank you very much,

MW

poledark said:

Sorry to have to say this Muratfaik, but my Sony does NOT have an external sensor! It has a button which when depressed by attaching an extra lens swithes off the flash. The other "lens" is actually the flash light. I have owned 5 different Sony camcorders and 1 JVC and none of them had external sensors either. They all worked perfectly with any lens I ever attached, mostly wide angle or 1.7 or 2X converters.

Den

Click to expand...

Hi Den,

I looked for Sony's AF sensor diagrams in their camcorders. But as far as I'd saw Sony tend to hide it's AF technology (at least for customers). On the other hand I found another Canon diagram that I attached as image and I understand that every brand, shows different approach for AF even in every model. For example the AF sensor locations are different at two different place in same camcorder brand's products. So establishing a good add on combination is depend on camcorder's AF technology and other factors that I explain before. As a customer, we always look for ideal combination. Good luck for everyone..

Murat Ozcelik